The Symmetry of "Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man" Forty Five Years Later 1 1

[Spider-Variant]

In late 1975, as my nine year old self was perusing the second issue (154) of Amazing Spider-Man that I would purchase, I discovered there toward the end of the book an ad for “The Battle of the Century Superman vs the Amazing Spider-Man”.  WHOA, I must have thought.   I remember searching over and over for that book for the weeks/months that followed, but I never found it on the stands.  Disappointed, I cursed my luck and moved on.  

I discovered back issues through the mail and ordered a copy about 4 years later, when I recalled that old ad in Issue 154.  I didn’t know much about Ross Andru when I read that book for the first time.  I did notice his art was crisper than it was on the Amazing Spider-Man at the time, inked by Mike Esposito.  But this was different.  This was better.    This was really, really good.

Ross Andru was so good, in fact, that he was handpicked by Gerry Conway to be the artist for one of the most important comics of all time, Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man.

"The real reason was that I just wanted to work with him again," recalls Conway during a phone conversation with SYFY WIRE. "I had the backing of [then-DC Comics EiC] Carmine Infantino to pick whoever I wanted to work with. The contract had stated DC would provide the writer and Marvel the artist. And it made perfect sense because Ross was one of the few artists who had drawn both characters at that point. It was an easy call to make. 
Gerry Conway further stated “The challenge for us was to do a story where each character got the same amount of space in the book, the same level of impact, the same contribution to the story, the same number of big splashes, and so on…”

Now, nearly 45 years to the week (Jan. 2, 1976 on sale date) that Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man went on sale, I wanted to see how well Ross Andru did on the interior artwork side of that challenge.

Operational Definition of Character Appearances

To do that, I had to establish some rules as what constituted an appearance of a character and what appearances I wanted to tabulate for comparison.  I used the operational definitions below:

1)    Spider-Man Panel Appearance – An appearance of Spider-Man’s whole body, face, or major portion of the body.  Hands, legs, arms, feet didn’t count and would go under the “Other” column if no other tabulated character appeared in the panel.
2)    Superman Panel Appearance – An appearance of Superman’s whole body, face, or major portion of the body.  Hands, legs, arms, feet didn’t count and would go under the “Other” column if no other tabulated character appeared in the panel.
3)    Spider-Man Major Panel Appearance – A very prominent appearance of Spider-Man, always associated with a Splash page or Double Splash page.  Note:  Spider-Man could appear on a Splash page and it not be a Major Appearance depending on image size. 
4)    Superman Major Panel Appearance – A very prominent appearance of Superman, always associated with a Splash page or Double Splash page.  Note:  Superman could appear on a Splash page and it not be a Major Appearance depending on image size. 
5)    Spider-Man and Superman Panel Appearances – An appearance of both Spider-Man and Super-Man in the same panel.  The definitions of 1 and 2 above apply for each character.
6)    Doctor Octopus Panel Appearance – An appearance of Doctor Octopus’s whole body, face, or major portion of the body.  Hands, legs, arms, feet didn’t count and would go under the “Other” column if no other tabulated character appeared in the panel.
7)    Lex Luthor Panel Appearance – An appearance of Lex Luthor’s whole body, face, or major portion of the body.  Hands, legs, arms, feet didn’t count and would go under the “Other” column if no other tabulated character appeared in the panel.
8)    Peter Parker Panel Appearance, Clark Kent Panel Appearance, Mary Jane Panel Appearance, Lois Lane Panel Appearance - An appearance of the tabulated character’s whole body, face, or major portion of the body.  Hands, legs, arms, feet didn’t count and would go under the “Other” column if no other tabulated character appeared in the panel.
9)    Peter Parker Supporting Cast Panel Appearance, Clark Kent Supporting Cast Panel Appearance- An appearance of the tabulated characters’ whole body, face, or major portion of the body.  Hands, legs, arms, feet didn’t count and would go under the “Other” column if no other tabulated character appeared in the panel.
10)    Other – Panel in which no tabulated character is featured or a panel in which only hands, legs, arms, or feet of one of the tabulated characters appear.

Splash Page (S) – One single panel with a large image occupying the entire page.  Additional smaller panels could be included but would be at a minimal number.
Double Page Splash (DS) - Two splash pages joined to form one panel across the two pages.  Additional smaller panels could be included but would be at a minimal number.
Double Page Spread (DPS) – Two pages with multiple panels running across two consecutive pages.

In tabulating character panels, the panels are not mutual exclusive.  That is to say for example, if MJ appears in a panel, it counts both as a MJ panel appearance and a Peter Parker Supporting Cast panel appearance.  A Spider-Man splash page could count as a Spider-Man panel appearance and a Major Spider-Man panel appearance.  

Section Balance Approach

To accomplish the goal, I believe Ross used a section balance approach, in that if he could balance the number of appearances of each character in the eight sections of the book, he could balance them across the entire book.

Let’s Look at the Sections and then look at the Tabulated Results.

Prologue 1 (Superman) – 15 pages, 1 Double Page Splash, 2 Splash Pages
Prologue 2 (Spider-Man) – 15 pages, 1 Double Page Splash, 2 Splash Pages
Lex Luthor and Doctor Octopus – 5 pages, 1 Double Page Splash, 1 Splash Page
Chapter One (Peter Parker and Clark Kent) – 10 pages, 1 Double Page Splash
Chapter Two (Spider-Man and Superman) – 14 pages, 1 Double Page Splash, 2 Double Page Spreads, 3 Splash Pages
Chapter Three (Spider-Man and Superman) – 12 pages, 1 Double Page Splash, 1 Double Page Spread, 1 Splash Page
Chapter Four (Spider-Man and Superman) – 20 pages, 1 Double Page Splash, 2 Double Page Spreads, 1 Splash Page
Epilogue (Peter Parker and Clark Kent) – 1 page.

Adding the 8 Section pages, the 3 Origin pages, and the Introduction page gives us 96 Total Interior Pages.
So, 96 Interior Pages breaks down to 444 panels.

The Results:
1)    Spider-Man Panel Appearances – 164 
2)    Superman Panel Appearances – 168

Four Panel difference over 96 pages and 444 panels.  That’s less than 1% difference in the main character appearances.  Amazing.

3)    Spider-Man Major Panel Appearances – 8 
4)    Superman Major Panel Appearances – 8

Not as amazing, but again, the section approach helped here, notice how the two Prologue sections (each featuring a different character) are identical in page count, DS, DPS, and S pages. 

5)    Spider-Man & Superman Panel Appearance – 80

Only about 20% of the panels had both main characters.  

6)    Doctor Octopus Panel Appearances – 63 
7)    Lex Luthor Panel Appearances – 65

2 panel difference between major villains.

8)    Peter Parker Panel Appearances – 54 
9)    Clark Kent Panel Appearances – 34
10)    Mary Jane Panel Appearances – 26
11)    Lois Lane Panel Appearances - 37

This is really the only departure from the equal footing of the characters.  Spider-Man’s alter ego appears 20 times more than Superman’s.  This was because of the plot interaction between Peter and Lois Lane.  The numbers balance a little better if we add Peter and MJ (80 panels) and compare to the sum of Clark and Lois (71 panels)

12)    Peter Parker Supporting Cast Panel Appearances – 52 
13)    Clark Kent Supporting Cast Panel Appearances – 55

Again, incredibly balanced.

14)    Other – 45
By definition, balanced.

Conclusion:  Ross Andru balanced the amount of space Spider-Man, Superman, Dr. Octopus, Lex Luthor, and the Alter Ego’s Supporting Cast appeared in Superman vs The Amazing Spider-Man to within 4 panels of each other when comparing the Marvel Universe with the DC Universe.  
Not sure further artist’s that worked on these cross company collaborations went to the effort that Ross Andru did, but this book was his Magnus Opus in my opinion.  
 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Spider-Variant
General clean up, readability.

[FoggyNelson]

Thanks for good post👍😷

[Spider-Variant]

1 hour ago, FoggyNelson said:

Thanks for good post👍😷

Thanks for the kind words Foggy.  I started a separate thread as opposed to put it in the Ross Andru thread because this was so long.  Viewing it on the computer is a bit much, but looking at it on a smart phone is just ridiculous, lol.  Guess I got long winded and couldn't shut up.

[Randall Ries]

We had a factory outlet where for some reason they always had the Treasury editions. I was 12 when I got this issue. It was so good. X-Overs were kinda rare back then. Not even sure this might have been the first x-over between DC and Marvel?

I was not a fan of Ross Andru's artwork. Just wasn't a style I liked is all. But that was a good book. All I can really remember from it is Parker landing body blows on Clark while Clark waited patiently for him to stop. And Parker nursing his bruised knuckles. LOL! Those were the days, my friends. We thought they would never end.

[Spider-Variant]

3 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

We had a factory outlet where for some reason they always had the Treasury editions. I was 12 when I got this issue. It was so good. X-Overs were kinda rare back then. Not even sure this might have been the first x-over between DC and Marvel?

I was not a fan of Ross Andru's artwork. Just wasn't a style I liked is all. But that was a good book. All I can really remember from it is Parker landing body blows on Clark while Clark waited patiently for him to stop. And Parker nursing his bruised knuckles. LOL! Those were the days, my friends. We thought they would never end.

Ah, weren't they though.  It's funny what you remember after 45 years.

[thehumantorch]

Nice thread.  I remember buying this book when it came out.  Still have it and still love it.  Although I never bought the concept of Spider-man giving Superman a challenge it was still so cool to see the two on the cover.

[Readcomix]

4 hours ago, Randall Ries said:Not even sure this might have been the first x-over between DC and Marvel?

This was their first crossover of their universes, though the Wizard of Oz treasury preceded it as their first cross-company collaboration. 
 

I would love a reprint volume of their early crossovers; both Superman/Spider-Man treasuries, Batman/Hulk, and I guess X-Men/Teen Titans. I think these were the only ones in the first wave. Am I forgetting any from this period? Weren’t the rest in the 90’s or thereafter? I guess you could make it a bigger volume by putting the Wizard of Oz in there, and reprinting the unpublished Perez pencils from the first JLA/Avengers project. A bit of it appeared in an issue of Comics Interview, IIRC. It’s in my Avengers boxes somewhere. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/8/2021 at 11:37 PM, Spider-Variant said:

Conclusion:  Ross Andru balanced the amount of space Spider-Man, Superman, Dr. Octopus, Lex Luthor, and the Alter Ego’s Supporting Cast appeared in Superman vs The Amazing Spider-Man to within 4 panels of each other when comparing the Marvel Universe with the DC Universe.  
Not sure further artist’s that worked on these cross company collaborations went to the effort that Ross Andru did, but this book was his Magnus Opus in my opinion.

Great post Reggie 

It's a testament to his work that people like you can go to the lengths you have here to assess his contribution which, as you already know, I think is woefully underrated. I've said it elsewhere, but I think the man himself would get a kick out of seeing this kind of analysis and attention. So much good stuff goes unnoticed in life. And death's a bastard isn't it. 

Nicely done mate.

Here's my old copy (with nice arrival date):

[Spider-Variant]

Steve, as always, thanks for the kind words. 

I agree that Ross was terribly underappreciated, and maybe my humble posts are my attempt to correct that.  In my mind I can see Ross fretting, wondering if had enough Spider-Man panels or too many Lois Lane panels in this book.  He just cared that much about his craft.

I would have loved to spent some time with Ross at a convention if I had a time machine, but I don't think he would even have gone to one, too embarrassed about the attention he may have gotten.

Love your old copy with a date stamp.  

[themagicrobot]

Steve I'm surprised you don't have OUR version.

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

7 minutes ago, themagicrobot said:

Steve I'm surprised you don't have OUR version.

I did have both, back in the good old Spidey completist days.... 

[jimjum12]

You guys are making me want one. The LCS had a mint copy, which was described as very scarce in that shape . They wanted a firm $ 150 for it. I decided to sleep on it and it was gone the next day. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

You guys are making me want one. The LCS had a mint copy, which was described as very scarce in that shape . They wanted a firm $ 150 for it. I decided to sleep on it and it was gone the next day. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Copies don't last long over here in the UK. If it's genuinely mint, that sounds quite reasonable to me. The signed by Stan Lee 'second printings' do well too, if you can find one. 

[jimjum12]

3 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Copies don't last long over here in the UK. If it's genuinely mint, that sounds quite reasonable to me. The signed by Stan Lee 'second printings' do well too, if you can find one. 

I knew the treasury format was tough in grade, but so many are just reprints that I got desensitized to them. I've yet to read that story, to my shame. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

I knew the treasury format was tough in grade, but so many are just reprints that I got desensitized to them. I've yet to read that story, to my shame. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Go back and buy it tomorrow. An original Spidey story, Andru style, in a massive format. What's not to like Jim!  

[ganni]

My brother sold our copy last year.  I see its still a hot chase item.