Anyone else experience a price tier bump based solely on the grade CGC gave it? 2 2

[Darkwing7869]

I got an email from CGC about a submission I sent in (25 books, all modern tier) saying that they are bumping up several of my books to a higher tier. It is what it is but what's interesting is that one of the books (UF 4) was upgraded all the way to Express which is a 3000 max value tier. Only the 9.8 comes close to hitting that tier. All other grades are at or below 1000 which is the Standard tier max value. Another book (Savage She-Hulk 1) was upgraded to Standard tier in which only 9.8s comes close to being a 1000 book. Even 9.6 is hovering around 400 which would be Economy tier. Prior to this submission, I have never had CGC upgrade any of my books during the grading process. I do find it odd that CGC is now basing the value on the book on the grade THEY intend to give it. Seems like a blatant conflict of interest. 

[Darkwing7869]

1 minute ago, Testinadicalicious said:

Is it possible that they bumped you after the slabbing was complete?

But that's still creating almost an incentive to grade books higher. "If I give this book a 9.6, I can charge him this grading fee, but if I give this book a 9.8, I can charge him this grading fee which is significantly more." A UF 4 9.8 is a $3000. A UF 4 9.6 is a $1000 book. Two different max value tiers. 

[Darkwing7869]

Just now, Testinadicalicious said:

I've heard this complaint for 20 years. People always complain that their tiers shouldn't go by value. But what's a better way?

Well I believe there is a difference between value and current market trends. I always assumed CGC based value on raw Overstreet Price Guide numbers and not what the graded book is currently going for in the grade CGC themselves gave it. 

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, Darkwing7869 said:

Well I believe there is a difference between value and current market trends. I always assumed CGC based value on raw Overstreet Price Guide numbers and not what the graded book is currently going for in the grade CGC themselves gave it. 

If CGC actually did that, I'd have to drop them below PGX in credibility.

Anyway, how much extra money do you think a grader sees when a submission gets bumped up to a higher tier?

[MatterEaterLad]

Happened to me this week as well. 

I suspect there will be more of this. With the comic market booming and CGC taking 4 months to turnaround a book there will be more than a few comics that spike in value in during that time. 

[joeypost]

Happened to me on one book (UF 4) and another dealer I know of had the same bump on one of his invoices. 

Looks like UF 4 is now on CGC's radar, as it should be. 

[Lightning55]

If people are submitting $1000+ comics at the $200 level, they are taking quite a risk.  While at CGC, they are insured for the Declared Value.  If you're potential $1k+ comic gets damaged, lost, or stolen, you are in a bad spot. 

Same for when they insure it to send it back, or if you have private insurance.  Your DV could trip you up in making a claim. 

Plus now they have moved it to another tier, and it will have its own shipping, sent separately or with a few other of your "tier rejects".  More for the tier, more for the shipping. 

If you had sent it with others from that higher tier, at least they would travel together, saving some shipping $$$.

[Gaard]

15 hours ago, Testinadicalicious said:

I've heard this complaint for 20 years. People always complain that their tiers shouldn't go by value. But what's a better way?

No tiers. I'm serious. The whole tier thing is senseless.

[gregwynn]

I submitted a NM 98 and UF 4 in the standard tier. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Randall Ries]

On 4/16/2021 at 2:42 PM, Lazyboy said:

If CGC actually did that, I'd have to drop them below PGX in credibility.

Anyway, how much extra money do you think a grader sees when a submission gets bumped up to a higher tier?

Huh? I think the real question is how much money does CGC see when they bump freshly graded books up to a higher tier?

[Jeffro.]

On 4/16/2021 at 12:30 PM, Testinadicalicious said:

On 4/16/2021 at 12:24 PM, Darkwing7869 said:

But that's still creating almost an incentive to grade books higher. "If I give this book a 9.6, I can charge him this grading fee, but if I give this book a 9.8, I can charge him this grading fee which is significantly more." A UF 4 9.8 is a $3000. A UF 4 9.6 is a $1000 book. Two different max value tiers. 

I've heard this complaint for 20 years. People always complain that their tiers shouldn't go by value. But what's a better way?

A flat rate. The only reason why they do it by value is because they can get away with it. They know they're still really the only game in town. 

A flat rate results in 

A rate that goes by value results in  and more 

[MetalPSI]

I subbed a wolverine 88

Technically that's a 1k book

I paid 3 bucks or whatever off the shelf. 

It's a 3 dollar book till someone pays me different 

[Lightning55]

There are a lot of factors to consider in the service.  The more the comic is worth, the more it costs to insure while in CGC's possession.  Also the more responsibility for it during handling, grading, slabbing (right on point for this situation), especially if being pressed.  CGC managers would want employees to treat every comic carefully, but even more so if it's a $2,000 UF4, or a $10,000 Silver Age comic.

If you had a $1,000 painting that you wanted touched up, you would get a qualified person to do it.  If it was a $5Milllion Van Gogh, you would only use an expert in the field, and that won't cost the same.  You're basically paying more to NOT RUIN it.  You're paying for their valuable experience, putting your trust into their hands.

Maybe someone on the boards does appraisals of some type - homes, businesses, estate collections, etc.  Do they charge by the hour, the service, or by value of the object(s) being appraised?  If you have a collection worth $1Million that has 10 pieces in it, and a $1Million collection that has 200 smaller pieces, does it cost the same to evaluate?

Then there's the speed of service thing.  Paying for faster service seems like slipping the Maitre D' $50 for a good table, a bribe of sorts.  But I guess it's similar to getting a Fast Pass at a theme park and jumping the line, or flying First Class.  Seems to be an accepted practice.

Maybe CGC is just fishing for a part of the "value added".  If you take a $50 9.8 raw Spawn 1, and add $20 worth of grading, you get a $200+ FMV comic.  So all that difference was due to the grading.  Why wouldn't you want part of the increased value?  The comic owner didn't do anything to make it worth more.

And what do your get with that CGC label and slab?  It means that it is an authentic comic, the specific one named on the label, not a copy, all original. 

It was checked for restoration.  Certainly likely to take a lot longer to check on a Silver Age book than a Modern.  It is verified to have all the pages, no coupons out, centerfold intact (or not), page color assigned.  Things you can't examine later without opening it.

It has been evaluated for condition by at least 2 graders who agree on the condition.  It has been sealed into an inner plastic capsule, a proprietary label made up unique to that comic, assigned a registration number, assembled into a hard plastic tamper-resistant case.

Having a CGC comic is like having a pedigree.  It's been authenticated, graded, validated.  Like the Good Housekeeping seal of approval.  People trust it, and pay a LOT more with it than without it, with maybe some exceptions. 

A lot of companies that add value to an item charge appropriately to get a piece of that increase in value, depending on what they brought to the table.  I suspect that is a large part of what is going on when you get a comic graded.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Lightning55

[Tony S]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:11 AM, Darkwing7869 said:

I got an email from CGC about a submission I sent in (25 books, all modern tier) saying that they are bumping up several of my books to a higher tier. It is what it is but what's interesting is that one of the books (UF 4) was upgraded all the way to Express which is a 3000 max value tier. Only the 9.8 comes close to hitting that tier. All other grades are at or below 1000 which is the Standard tier max value. Another book (Savage She-Hulk 1) was upgraded to Standard tier in which only 9.8s comes close to being a 1000 book. Even 9.6 is hovering around 400 which would be Economy tier. Prior to this submission, I have never had CGC upgrade any of my books during the grading process. I do find it odd that CGC is now basing the value on the book on the grade THEY intend to give it. Seems like a blatant conflict of interest. 

It's important to note the difference between the maximum fair market value and the value range of the various CGC tiers.  If the UM 4 is valued at $1001 in 9.8, it's not a standard tier. It's an Express tier.  Express is $1001 up to $3000. Standard is $401 up to $1000. 

But no, this is something new. CGC has not in the past seemed interested is disputing declared values and bumping books to higher tiers. They have always reserved the right to move books to higher tiers based on the value, but just have not done so often. Especially not with moderns, where the difference between 9.4 and 9.8 can be huge. Heck, about six years  ago when CGC announced the modern tier was being rolled back to 1975, they pictured a GS X-Men 1 in 9.6 as the example.  Even six years ago GSXM 1 in 9.6 was worth way, WAY more than the $200 limit for modern. But that was their example back then of a book now eligible for modern tier. 

Will be interesting to see if this is the beginning of a new mindset of CGC, or some one-off thing. But on the positive side, it's pretty much certain your books are 9.8's.  That's a good thing. 

I will also add that third party grading and encapsulation is a value added service.  Their grading and encapsulation add value. The more valuable the book, the move value  added.  I don't disagree in that grading companies can and should charge more for more expensive books. Only noting that in the past CGC has seemed disinclined to do so, even though they have always said the could. That grading company that is now in Texas has always been more likely to bump books. 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Tony S

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/16/2021 at 12:11 PM, Darkwing7869 said:

...I do find it odd that CGC is now basing the value on the book on the grade THEY intend to give it. Seems like a blatant conflict of interest. 

Huh...?

[jharvey]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:12 PM, Lightning55 said:

If people are submitting $1000+ comics at the $200 level, they are taking quite a risk.  While at CGC, they are insured for the Declared Value.  If you're potential $1k+ comic gets damaged, lost, or stolen, you are in a bad spot. 

Same for when they insure it to send it back, or if you have private insurance.  Your DV could trip you up in making a claim. 

Plus now they have moved it to another tier, and it will have its own shipping, sent separately or with a few other of your "tier rejects".  More for the tier, more for the shipping. 

If you had sent it with others from that higher tier, at least they would travel together, saving some shipping $$$.

What if it was a $200 comic when you sent it in, but 4 months later when they finally get around to grading it, it is now a $1000 book? I believe this is a fairly common occurrence these days.

[djzombi]

On 4/16/2021 at 12:11 PM, Darkwing7869 said:

 Seems like a blatant conflict of interest. 

Honestly, I've said this since day 1.  

[Darkwing7869]

10 hours ago, Angel of Death said:

Huh...?

My UF4 got bumped from a Modern Tier to an Express Tier. Express tier is for books between 1001 and 3000. The ONLY grade of UF4 that fits within those two values is a 9.8. A 9.6 and lower is worth less than 1000. So, the only justification for CGC to upgrade my copy of UF4 all the way up to Express tier is if it specifically graded at a 9.8. Who decides if it gets a 9.8? CGC themselves.

[Lazyboy]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:57 PM, Randall Ries said:

Huh? I think the real question is how much money does CGC see when they bump freshly graded books up to a higher tier?

Why? What is an individual grader's incentive to give a book a higher grade than it deserves if only the company is getting more money?

[Lazyboy]

On 4/17/2021 at 2:15 PM, Jeffro. said:

A flat rate. The only reason why they do it by value is because they can get away with it. They know they're still really the only game in town. 

A flat rate results in 

A rate that goes by value results in  and more 

So how much is this flat rate and how many books that are currently worth submitting only at lower tiers will no longer be worth it?

Now fast track, that is the blatant cash grab.