They're Still Out There! 22 22

[cgcmod8]

I have removed several posts.  This thread will remain locked until tomorrow.  When it is re-opened, I expect calmer, nicer discussion, or it will be permanently locked.  

[Gotham Kid]

On 5/16/2021 at 5:56 PM, path4play said:

My dad recently passed, memorialized in a short poem here: https://www.goodgirlcomics.com/the-ole-mans-collection/

 

Sorry for your loss. Mine did too.

[Gotham Kid]

15 hours ago, cgcmod8 said:

I have removed several posts.  This thread will remain locked until tomorrow.  When it is re-opened, I expect calmer, nicer discussion, or it will be permanently locked.  

Did this thread somehow get shifted to Comics General ?

Very odd.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[batman_fan]

I like turtles

[Gotham Kid]

18 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I like turtles

please my friend, nobody here cares for TMNT 1.

I will say it again, I'll pay $200 for a 9.8 copy provided I get a $150 coupon with it for a nice lunch. I'll use the TMNT as (fill in the blank) material later, in the can.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[Funnybooks]

4 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I like turtle soup

[buttock]

15 hours ago, cgcmod8 said:

I have removed several posts.  This thread will remain locked until tomorrow.  When it is re-opened, I expect calmer, nicer discussion, or it will be permanently locked.  

 

7 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

please my friend, nobody here gives 2 sh**ts about TMNT 1.

I will say it again, I'll pay $200 for a 9.8 copy provided I get a $150 coupon with it for a nice lunch. I'll use the TMNT as (fill in the blank) material later, in the can.

Well done. 

[N e r V]

50 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

please my friend, nobody here cares for TMNT 1.

I will say it again, I'll pay $200 for a 9.8 copy provided I get a $150 coupon with it for a nice lunch. I'll use the TMNT as (fill in the blank) material later, in the can.

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

1 hour ago, Funnybooks said:

  1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

I like turtle soup

[Mmehdy]

19 hours ago, cgcmod8 said:

I have removed several posts.  This thread will remain locked until tomorrow.  When it is re-opened, I expect calmer, nicer discussion, or it will be permanently locked.  

This an unprecedented time on the boards for an unprecedented OO 5000 ultra high grade collection. Tempers are going to be put to the test. As I have stated, this is it...this is it...the one last time you and all other GA and possible SA collectors who wish to dip can get a pedigree once in a lifetime collection directly from the owners.

 If we refocus our energy to the task at hand, we already have a big job ahead of us. First there are over 5000 books to chose from. Pick you battles on few 5/10 books and look out on the weekly auctions for the bargains that is 1/5 of 1% should be  manageable. Second research all price history and similar books with major pedigrees. Especially if you can trace a 20 year price appreciation history to gauge how much you might overpay now and when recovery will take effect. Chose if you can the weak spots of your collection or consider expanding your collection to get one or two new "type" of GA books to keep as an example. Their is a fellow board member whom I talk to on the phone with  and his plan is to get 1-super hero, 1-War, 1 crime etc and put them away for a long long time.

Have the staying power to be able hold the book for at least 2/3 years.

Chose the book not the grade per se, that is if you like a "war" book cover or issue or contents better go for the 9.0 book that you like vs a graded 9.6 with an inferior cover.

For those on the board who have been here for a while, go with your gut instead of your head. A inferior book could be a "bargain" but I would go quality over quantity.

Chose your speculation buys carefully. I know of one non-board member collector who is going to buy two of a kind GA ultra high grade books, with the idea of selling one of those in 2/5 years for double the amount and getting the remaining book free. Not a. bad plan if you select wisely.

 For those who have said I cannot afford this collection, I would try to buy one "book". First you are gonna thank me in 3/5 years and say I wish had bought more, Second you are not gonna want to part with that book unless you get 2x or 5x what you paid, and third if you had to sell some dupes or low grade material which can easily be bought again in the open market, maybe even in better shape when you rebuy, you are gonna thank me. We have over 5000 books here, you should be able to find one, do not give up.

Once the last book is sold, everyone will realize the opportunity we had. I remember a great story at SDCC when chuck brought the mile high comics to SDCC. I remember the owner of the "book Sail"...that was a comic book and collectors book store which paid the highest prices for comics, art-especially pulp paintings like the HJ Ward "Evil Flame" which resold on HA.Com for the world record price of $147K. They had just bought like 10K worth of mile high comics, in fact I remember going to lunch with them, John and Dave was his assistant, and I asked the mile high girl for a discount on the stack that I bought and she  pointed said, they just bought 10K of books with no discount given, I am assuming she right about that and we did not discount them a penny and they were priced 2/3 times guide at the time for the little stuff and then I even bought some romance comics... I paid full price andthat is how great they were. With that in mind,  when it comes to the price at the "time" ,take a look forward, you have the opportunity at will thousands of others to obtain one the highest graded or top copy, not in a auction where it stands alone, but in a crowd of 5000 others. Just like I competed at the SDCC against the Mega dealer the the "Book Sail" at the time as they had gone back. and thumbing for books for another buy. There is enough for everyone, this time as well and do not let the "book Sail" types discourage you. I did not.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Mmehdy

[lou_fine]

7 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

I am assuming she right about that and we did not discount them a penny and they were price 2/3 time guide at the time for the little stuff and then I even bought some romance comics...

Are you saying that you brough some Church books from Chuckles at 2/3 of guide (i.e. two thirds guide) or do you mean that you brought them at a multiple of 2 to 3 times guide which seems to be much more likely?  

[Dr. Love]

1 hour ago, Mmehdy said:

and then I even bought some romance comics... 

pics or it never happened, councilor!

 

[buttock]

1 hour ago, Mmehdy said:

 

Have the staying power to be able hold the book for at least 2/3 years.

Chose the book not the grade per se, that is if you like a "war" book cover or issue or contents better go for the 9.0 book that you like vs a graded 9.6 with an inferior cover.

For those on the board who have been here for a while, go with your gut instead of your head. A inferior book could be a "bargain" but I would go quality over quantity.

Chose your speculation buys carefully. I know of one non-board member collector who is going to buy two of a kind GA ultra high grade books, with the idea of selling one of those in 2/5 years for double the amount and getting the remaining book free. Not a. bad plan if you select wisely.

 For those who have said I cannot afford this collection, I would try to buy one "book". First you are gonna thank me in 3/5 years and say I wish had bought more, Second you are not gonna want to part with that book unless you get 2x or 5x what you paid, and third if you had to sell some dupes or low grade material which can easily be bought again in the open market, maybe even in better shape when you rebuy, you are gonna thank me. We have over 5000 books here, you should be able to find one, do not give up.

 

Encouraging people to buy and flip?  You're not a "true collector".

[sagii]

1 hour ago, Mmehdy said:

This an unprecedented time on the boards for an unprecedented OO 5000 ultra high grade collection. Tempers are going to be put to the test. As I have stated, this is it...this is it...the one last time you and all other GA and possible SA collectors who wish to dip can get a pedigree once in a lifetime collection directly from the owners.

 If we refocus our energy to the task at hand, we already have a big job ahead of us. First there are over 5000 books to chose from. Pick you battles on few 5/10 books and look out on the weekly auctions for the bargains that is 1/5 of 1% should be  manageable. Second research all price history and similar books with major pedigrees. Especially if you can trace a 20 year price appreciation history to gauge how much you might overpay now and when recovery will take effect. Chose if you can the weak spots of your collection or consider expanding your collection to get one or two new "type" of GA books to keep as an example. Their is a fellow board member whom I talk to on the phone with  and his plan is to get 1-super hero, 1-War, 1 crime etc and put them away for a long long time.

Have the staying power to be able hold the book for at least 2/3 years.

Chose the book not the grade per se, that is if you like a "war" book cover or issue or contents better go for the 9.0 book that you like vs a graded 9.6 with an inferior cover.

For those on the board who have been here for a while, go with your gut instead of your head. A inferior book could be a "bargain" but I would go quality over quantity.

Chose your speculation buys carefully. I know of one non-board member collector who is going to buy two of a kind GA ultra high grade books, with the idea of selling one of those in 2/5 years for double the amount and getting the remaining book free. Not a. bad plan if you select wisely.

 For those who have said I cannot afford this collection, I would try to buy one "book". First you are gonna thank me in 3/5 years and say I wish had bought more, Second you are not gonna want to part with that book unless you get 2x or 5x what you paid, and third if you had to sell some dupes or low grade material which can easily be bought again in the open market, maybe even in better shape when you rebuy, you are gonna thank me. We have over 5000 books here, you should be able to find one, do not give up.

Once the last book is sold, everyone will realize the opportunity we had. I remember a great story at SDCC when chuck brought the mile high comics to SDCC. I remember the owner of the "book Sail"...that was a comic book and collectors book store which paid the highest prices for comics, art-especially pulp paintings like the HJ Ward "Evil Flame" which resold on HA.Com for the world record price of $147K. They had just bought like 10K worth of mile high comics, in fact I remember going to lunch with them, John and Dave was his assistant, and I asked the mile high girl for a discount on the stack that I bought and she  pointed said, they just bought 10K of books with no discount given, I am assuming she right about that and we did not discount them a penny and they were price 2/3 time guide at the time for the little stuff and then I even bought some romance comics... I paid full price andthat is how great they were. With that in mind,  when it comes to the price at the "time" ,take a look forward, you have the opportunity at will thousands of others to obtain one the highest graded or top copy, not in a auction where it stands alone, but in a crowd of 5000 others. Just like I competed at the SDCC against the Mega dealer the the "Book Sail" at the time as they had gone back. and thumbing for books for another buy. There is enough for everyone, this time as well and do not let the "book Sail" types discourage you. I did not.

 

 

Sound advice Mitch. I will not be a player on this first round of books, I will wait (primarily for the Sunday auction offerings down the road and the year progress').

Knock them as we do on the gold forum, I have a few very high grade bronze books left and I intend to sell those to cover this. A She-Hulk 1 in particular that I would be floored if it didn't come back 9.9 when I submit it. Just must time the sale right. When the trailer drops for her Disney plus show, to auction she goes! 

[Mmehdy]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Are you saying that you brough some Church books from Chuckles at 2/3 of guide (i.e. two thirds guide) or do you mean that you brought them at a multiple of 2 to 3 times guide which seems to be much more likely?  

sorry 2 to 3 X guide was the minimum.

[Mmehdy]

29 minutes ago, buttock said:

Encouraging people to buy and flip?  You're not a "true collector".

A TCBC can buy, sell, trade anytime. I told you about a collector who is going to buy two similar books and flip one out 3/5 years to cover the costs of both He is a TCBC who is just using smart business to make his collection better. He is not a widget seller who can care nothing for US, GA comic books other than profit.

[lou_fine]

On 5/8/2021 at 4:46 AM, Timely said:

A rising tide can lift boats, but can sink others.

It is apparent a lot of current “Highest Graded Copy” books will no longer have that distinction due to this collection. Having that distinction on your book greatly increases its value. If you lose that, you lose money.

Example. You have the best copy of a book, a 9.4 worth $5000. No a 9.6 appears. It is worth $6500 and that 9.4 is now worth $4000. I see this happen all the time!

I think a lot of collectors just lost money due to this new collection pushing their books off that highest graded pedestal, many right here on the boards!

I think this scenario as you have laid out here really only comes into play when you have the odd random HG book that comes in and takes out your current "Highest Graded Copy".  This is not the same situation here as you have an uber HG GA OO collection (i.e. an once in a lifetime generational collection) that will be taking out not only your current highest graded copy, but also many many other highest graded copies at the same time.  As a result, I believe the pricing scenario which you have laid out in your post above will not be the one that comes into play here.  

In addition, the other point to remember is that if your current highest graded copy is not and was not going to be coming to market anytime soon, it is actually kind of irrelevant to the pricing valuation going forwards anyways.  How do you even know that your copy is worth $5K in the first place if it is the highest copy and hasn't actually come to market to test this estimated price point of yours.  Especially true if there have also been no other close equivalent graded copies to come to market recently to give you a valid estimate in the first place.  

For example, how do we really know how much a HG copy of All-American 61 with the classic Solomon Grundy cover is really worth.  So, even if the Promise Copy is only the second highest graded copy out there, this auction here will finally provide some kind of real benchmark after all this time for the marketplace to give us some idea as to its true value.  Notwithstanding CL which hides everything, it looks like the highest graded copy of AA 61 to come to public market and easily trackable is the HA CGC 7.5 graded copy that sold for $4,780 back in 2011 and then resold for $27,750 on CC for $27,750 in 2018, after they had sold a different CGC 7.5 copy for $4,527 back in 2013.  So, only 2 CGC 7.5 graded copies sold in the past 10 years with a total of 3 sales which makes it kind of hard for the owners of the CGC 9.8 highest graded copy, the owners of the slightly lower graded copies at CGC 9.4, 9.2, and 8.5; or heck even the owners of still HG raw copies to figure out what their copies are truly worth in today's hyper red hot marketplace.  So, if I was the owner of any of these copies, I would actually be ecstatic and waiting impatiently for this auction to take place hoping for the highest dollar possible at the same time  This is actually a big unexpected positive because there's finally going to be an auction that's going to help acclerate my book into the next pricing level, without me having to sell my own personal HG copy in order to do that.  

So, with the auctioning off of this historic and hobby place changing Promise Collection, it's actually quite possible that the pricing scenario which you laid out above might actually play out quite differently and possibly even in your favor here.  Is it possible that your current highest graded copy might actually be worth either slightly less or slightly more than your $5K price point since it has not come to market recently, or for any other closely graded copies?  So, instead of the Promise Copy selling for $6,500 as per your scenario above, it's actually quite possible that it might even sell for $8K, and in reality pull your now 2nd highest graded copy above the $5K price point that you thought it was worth when it was the then highest graded copy.  

Who really knows, but you can't rule out this possibility also, and even more so, is your copy even relevant if you was not even intending to sell it anytime soon in the first place anyways?  What you have now is a even higher sale confirming the actual value of your copy which if history has shown us, will usually only continue to move upwards from there.  This scenario which I laid out for the CGC 9.6 graded copy of AA 61, I believe, will also play out the same way for a lot of other HG GA in-demand books (either raw or slabbed) that have not come to market recently because they have been locked away in private collections for decades.  

Bottom-line:  I strongly believe this Promise Collection is going to be a big win-win for all GA collectors, even the ones that will be losing their former "highest graded copy" status (unless you was planning to sell it soon) because the price you will receive eventually for your book when it does come time for you to sell it will most likely be markedly higher with the discovery and release of this Promise Collection than it would have been without it.       

[jimbo_7071]

48 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I think this scenario as you have laid out here really only comes into play when you have the odd random HG book that comes in and takes out your current "Highest Graded Copy".  This is not the same situation here as you have an uber HG GA OO collection (i.e. an once in a lifetime generational collection) that will be taking out not only your current highest graded copy, but also many many other highest graded copies at the same time.  As a result, I believe the pricing scenario which you have laid out in your post above will not be the one that comes into play here.  

In addition, the other point to remember is that if your current highest graded copy is not and was not going to be coming to market anytime soon, it is actually kind of irrelevant to the pricing valuation going forwards anyways.  How do you even know that your copy is worth $5K in the first place if it is the highest copy and hasn't actually come to market to test this estimated price point of yours.  Especially true if there have also been no other close equivalent graded copies to come to market recently to give you a valid estimate in the first place.  

For example, how do we really know how much a HG copy of All-American 61 with the classic Solomon Grundy cover is really worth.  So, even if the Promise Copy is only the second highest graded copy out there, this auction here will finally provide some kind of real benchmark after all this time for the marketplace to give us some idea as to its true value.  Notwithstanding CL which hides everything, it looks like the highest graded copy of AA 61 to come to public market and easily trackable is the HA CGC 7.5 graded copy that sold for $4,780 back in 2011 and then resold for $27,750 on CC for $27,750 in 2018, after they had sold a different CGC 7.5 copy for $4,527 back in 2013.  So, only 2 CGC 7.5 graded copies sold in the past 10 years with a total of 3 sales which makes it kind of hard for the owners of the CGC 9.8 highest graded copy, the owners of the slightly lower graded copies at CGC 9.4, 9.2, and 8.5; or heck even the owners of still HG raw copies to figure out what their copies are truly worth in today's hyper red hot marketplace.  So, if I was the owner of any of these copies, I would actually be ecstatic and waiting impatiently for this auction to take place hoping for the highest dollar possible at the same time  This is actually a big unexpected positive because there's finally going to be an auction that's going to help acclerate my book into the next pricing level, without me having to sell my own personal HG copy in order to do that.  

So, with the auctioning off of this historic and hobby place changing Promise Collection, it's actually quite possible that the pricing scenario which you laid out above might actually play out quite differently and possibly even in your favor here.  Is it possible that your current highest graded copy might actually be worth either slightly less or slightly more than your $5K price point since it has not come to market recently, or for any other closely graded copies?  So, instead of the Promise Copy selling for $6,500 as per your scenario above, it's actually quite possible that it might even sell for $8K, and in reality pull your now 2nd highest graded copy above the $5K price point that you thought it was worth when it was the then highest graded copy.  

Who really knows, but you can't rule out this possibility also, and even more so, is your copy even relevant if you was not even intending to sell it anytime soon in the first place anyways?  What you have now is a even higher sale confirming the actual value of your copy which if history has shown us, will usually only continue to move upwards from there.  This scenario which I laid out for the CGC 9.6 graded copy of AA 61, I believe, will also play out the same way for a lot of other HG GA in-demand books (either raw or slabbed) that have not come to market recently because they have been locked away in private collections for decades.  

Bottom-line:  I strongly believe this Promise Collection is going to be a big win-win for all GA collectors, even the ones that will be losing their former "highest graded copy" status (unless you was planning to sell it soon) because the price you will receive eventually for your book when it does come time for you to sell it will most likely be markedly higher with the discovery and release of this Promise Collection than it would have been without it.       

It sounds like you're saying it will be a win for collectors whose collections are mostly complete and who plan to sell. I plan to do virtually no selling in my lifetime (aside from getting rid of impulse buys that don't fit my collection), and I still intend to buy the occasional book, so I wouldn't see increasing prices as a good thing.

I'm not sure I buy your argument, though. The supply of high-grade books in increasing, and an increase in supply doesn't usually lead to higher prices; the opposite is usually true (at least according to what my Econ prof taught me back in college).

[lou_fine]

17 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

It sounds like you're saying it will be a win for collectors whose collections are mostly complete and who plan to sell. I plan to do virtually no selling in my lifetime (aside from getting rid of impulse buys that don't fit my collection), and I still intend to buy the occasional book, so I wouldn't see increasing prices as a good thing.

I'm not sure I buy your argument, though. The supply of high-grade books in increasing, and an increase in supply doesn't usually lead to higher prices; the opposite is usually true (at least according to what my Econ prof taught me back in college).

Well, since @Timely was alluding to collectors who owned highest graded copies in their personal collections, I was definitely referring to long time collectors who most likely already own some of these books (albeit in slight lower graded condition) within their collection.  

I was also referring to these same long time collectors being rational and eventually reaching a point where they do decide to sell them in the future, as opposed to being buried with them in their graves.  

Edited May 18, 2021 by lou_fine

[MattTheDuck]

25 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

It sounds like you're saying it will be a win for collectors whose collections are mostly complete and who plan to sell. I plan to do virtually no selling in my lifetime (aside from getting rid of impulse buys that don't fit my collection), and I still intend to buy the occasional book, so I wouldn't see increasing prices as a good thing.

I'm not sure I buy your argument, though. The supply of high-grade books in increasing, and an increase in supply doesn't usually lead to higher prices; the opposite is usually true (at least according to what my Econ prof taught me back in college).

To really impact prices, however, the increase in supply has to satisfy most or all of the demand.  I doubt having an extra copy or three of a widely sought-after HG GA book is going to satisfy demand.  Now if the Promise Collection consisted of 5,000 9.6 copies of the same book, it might impact pricing.