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They're Still Out There!
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Started by Moondog,

2,906 posts in this topic

Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, sagii said:

Sound advice Mitch. I will not be a player on this first round of books, I will wait (primarily for the Sunday auction offerings down the road and the year progress').

Knock them as we do on the gold forum, I have a few very high grade bronze books left and I intend to sell those to cover this. A She-Hulk 1 in particular that I would be floored if it didn't come back 9.9 when I submit it. Just must time the sale right. When the trailer drops for her Disney plus show, to auction she goes! 

Good plan, buddy! I need to make an inventory of what I can sell. hm

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, PopKulture said:

I'm surprised to read this. I'd be more inclined to believe that sort of motivation exists for Bronze or Silver Age enthusiasts, so too chasers of Moderns and variants. Are you saying it's fairly prevalent with Golden Age collectors as well?

I've never even looked at top registry sets for GA...  hm

I don't think it's quite as bloodthirsty in gold as it is in silver or bronze but it definitely exists. The competitive instincts in these Type A collectors can't be overstated. :) The Registry was a brilliant money making scheme for whichever grading company came up with the concept first and I'm shocked that Voldemort has not followed with their own Registry. 

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Mmehdy

Mmehdy

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, sagii said:

Ride the MCU wave till the wheels fall off (:

The GA protection that SA does not have if the fact that High grade GA comic books are much rarer and of course were not "saved" by collectors such as the Marvesl were in the 1960's. I agree the GA comic book market is a related but different animal  all together. Due to rarity and collectability being earlier in time, the MCU downfall or decline should have little effect, I do not  see the wheels falling off, will have no impact  on this GA comic book market prices and especially on ultra high grade copies. So who cares...the same with printed comic books being or going digital, or the fact that sales of new comic books get lower each year...little or no effect on the GA market and value. I would say it makes perfect sense to convert some SA material in to GA, whether it is buying the best of the best promise books and waiting and buying the traded down books on the open  market if you feel the wheels are gonna fall off of MCU.

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N e r V

N e r V

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Timely said:

I’m not sure I’m getting my point across. It’s not about having another high grade copy out there, it’s about a new copy being crowned as the highest graded copy and what impact it has on the former highest graded copy. 
 

There is fierce competition at that very top level with top collectors jockeying for position to claim that top honor, to get those registry points... to be #1! 
 

I know a lot of these collectors, they press their books, not for financial gain, as they’ll never sell (unless a better copy becomes available), but because they want to remain at the top of the census!

These guys will pay an extra 20-50% to get that highest graded copy. If that copy is now the 2nd best, that money goes right out the window.

I think that anyone that has that logic is (mostly) setting themselves up for failure. Have they not been around long enough to realize slabbed books never equal the actual amount of existing copies out there? Are they assuming any raw books out there must be lower grades? Or are they just hoping to enjoy whatever time they have at the top? I get the real high numbers might seem safer bets but it seems to me that’s a pretty big risk in a lot of cases. The world isn’t only about what CGC and others have slabbed to date. 

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Robot Man

Robot Man

Posted
Posted

I remember an esteemed boardie who no longer posts here had a Gaines File copy of MAD #1. It was the highest graded copy at the time. Then low and behold, two more copies in similar grade appeared on the census. He ended up selling it. I guess bragging rights wasn’t enough. I would kill to own any one of those...

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adamstrange

adamstrange

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, N e r V said:

I think that anyone that has that logic is (mostly) setting themselves up for failure. Have they not been around long enough to realize slabbed books never equal the actual amount of existing copies out there? Are they assuming any raw books out there must be lower grades? Or are they just hoping to enjoy whatever time they have at the top? I get the real high numbers might seem safer bets but it seems to me that’s a pretty big risk in a lot of cases. The world isn’t only about what CGC and others have slabbed to date. 

It's been more than 20 years since CGC opened their doors, so I think a significant portion of collectors assume more completeness/stability in the census than there is.  Frequent lurkers and commenters of the GA Forum are much more aware of the uncertainties than the average big-spender.  This is easily confirmable by viewing posts on social media platforms.

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adamstrange

adamstrange

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, N e r V said:

The world isn’t only about what CGC and others have slabbed to date. 

My hazy understanding is that, after 20 years, grading was more extensively utilized in the coin and card hobby than in comics.  

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Robot Man

Robot Man

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, adamstrange said:

My hazy understanding is that, after 20 years, grading was more extensively utilized in the coin and card hobby than in comics.  

Probably still true. There are a lot of old school collectors who are sitting on stacks of ungraded pedigree and high grade books. Impossible to know what is still out there and not on the census. 

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sagii

sagii

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

The GA protection that SA does not have if the fact that High grade GA comic books are much rarer and of course were not "saved" by collectors such as the Marvesl were in the 1960's. I agree the GA comic book market is a related but different animal  all together. Due to rarity and collectability being earlier in time, the MCU downfall or decline should have little effect, I do not  see the wheels falling off, will have no impact  on this GA comic book market prices and especially on ultra high grade copies. So who cares...the same with printed comic books being or going digital, or the fact that sales of new comic books get lower each year...little or no effect on the GA market and value. I would say it makes perfect sense to convert some SA material in to GA, whether it is buying the best of the best promise books and waiting and buying the traded down books on the open  market if you feel the wheels are gonna fall off of MCU.

I don't think the wheels will fall off perse,  value may drop,  but there always will be value on some level there.

I meant in terms of these as now all time highs, if that's not really your area of collecting focus, ride wave, sell when demand is at a peak, use the money towards other area of focus (gold for me) 

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Robot Man said:

I remember an esteemed boardie who no longer posts here had a Gaines File copy of MAD #1. It was the highest graded copy at the time. Then low and behold, two more copies in similar grade appeared on the census. He ended up selling it. I guess bragging rights wasn’t enough. I would kill to own any one of those...

I would kill to own the copy that YOU have now, my friend. Mad 1 is one of the coolest books of all time :cloud9: GOD BLESS....

-Melvin(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

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Aman619

Aman619

Posted
Posted

Also the guy who lost money on his highest graded Mad 1 failed to grasp that Gaines put aside a dozen uncirculated copies. Chances were high that more would grade as high. 
 

this applies to other books still raw that would top the census someday. Most of us are aware of a bunch of them, maybe we should pool our resources to generate a list of known copies presumed (based on provenance and memory of old sales) like a “phantom census”. We could all use it to gauge when buying a highest graded copy that really won’t be forever.   Any known but unslabbed MH or Allentown or SF copy are obvious candidates. 

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ttecwaf

ttecwaf

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No one doubts this in an incredible collection.  Several comments have been made that I respectfully disagree with.  This is probably not the last time to get a piece of a once in a lifetime collection from the owners.  The owners have already sold/consigned the collection.  What difference does it make if a particular issue is bought in the upcoming auction or down the road? Prices fluctuate even on the pedigrees from Mile High, Billy Wright and the Crippen Pedigrees.  For example, look at the Mile High Flash Comics #3.  Sold in 2008 for $41,825 and in 2010 for $22,705.  In 2 years it decreased by 45%!  The Flash Comics #12 Mile High sold in 2008 for $33,400, 2010 for $23,900 and in 2011 for $25,095.  Not only did the sale price go down it generated more than $17,000 in sales for Heritage.  The All-Flash #12 mile high (graded 9.4-9.8 after pressing) has sold 5 time just on Heritage.  2005: $3450, 2010: $2270, 2011 $2270, 2014 $2629 and again in 2014 for $3346.  From 2005 to 2014 there was no appreciable change in value.  Not great from an investment point of view.  The big winner here was Heritage brining in about $2793 in commission.  The commission they earned was more than it sold for in 3 out of the 5 auctions.  Yes, over time many go up.  The point being values can fluctuate even on the Pedigrees.  The question is how badly do you want the issue and how much do you want to invest.  A friend is very proud they have a bunch of red seal $2 bills.  Almost 60 years old.  These are circulated and worth $5-10 on ebay.  If we use $10 as a value (today) it is worth 5x more today than 1963.  That same $2 (for a single $2 bill)  invested in an index fund (for example purposes) assuming a doubling every 10 years on average would be worth more than $100 today or 10x more value than the bills current value on ebay.  The question is how much does someone want an issue from the Promise collection so they can say they have an issue vs. investing in other more reasonable priced Golden Age.  Recently, I looked at a golden age comic at a local dealer.  It was listed on ebay for more than a year.  Offered to pay cash minus the ebay fees which seemed fair (plus it was cash).  The dealer declined (not sure why).  The best way for those of us who do not have an unlimited budget is to be willing to walk away and have the funds for another day.   Unquestionably many or most will go up over time.  However, it may not be the best investment depending on your time horizon.  It will be fun to watch the auction and I may put in a bid (for what I consider a reasonable value) but it has become a feeding frenzy that will in the short term most likely result in overbidding (which is good for Heritage).  The same thing happened with the Billy Wright collection.  Purchased a few after the auction years down the line at lower prices.  There were some issues (non pedigree)  years ago that Heritage auctioned that I felt were overpriced.  Really wanted them.  About 5 years later I was able to purchase them for 1/3 of the original sale price (from Heritage).  In the end it is a question of how bad to you want the issue and are you willing to wait for it to be resold, buy a different lower graded copy or wait for the next collection to be found.  Yes, I have “overpaid” for certain Golden Age that do not show up frequently.  Do not regret it but know from an investment point of view may not have been the best choice.  Statistically there will probably be another “original” collection that is brought to market.  Maybe not in the same numbers and probably not in the same overall high grade but is that worth jumping into the feeding frenzy?  As far as the numerous comments on overgrading the same thing happened with the Crippen issues.  I remember showing Mr. Nelson on of my Crippen copies (before he was at CGC) and he commented that many were overgraded.  Obvously, the same has occurred with the Promise collection.  Just my thoughts.  Thanks.

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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

Posted
Posted (edited)

I suspect a lot of the big bidding wars are not just for the best copy, but the best available copy.  

How else do you explain Action Comics 1 8.5 on 2021/04/06 ComicConnect for $3,250,000.00?  There is a MH copy out there that is probably best, the CGC 9.0 white, and the Cage copy CGC 9.0 cream/ow.   That 8.5 bidding was not a frenzy for the "best copy," that's a frenzy for the best copy not owned by the Dentist or Hariri.  Scary thing is for that buyer is that Hariri could dump two better copies on the market if he loses interest in comics, and there are other very nice copies that might hit 8.5 out there. 

Edited by sfcityduck
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