They're Still Out There! 22 22

[jimjum12]

5 minutes ago, Larryw7 said:

I agree, those Schomburg covers get tiresome after awhile. 

I agree... that's why, after about a half hour, I put it back in the box and get out another  GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

... I know I would love to have that MM 66 recreation that Cat has 

[Straw-Man]

death ray!!

[tabcom]

June Auction Bronze

Is HA pump’n dumpin at the tippy top?

this auction doesn’t make sense to a long-time collector. It’s gonna require big money influx from non-collectors. It is a spectacle best view from the sidelines.

[Flex Mentallo]

23 hours ago, buttock said:

There's nothing like a big fat golden age book that fills up the mylar and you can see a gap at the centerfold when looking from above.  Seems like a lot of Larsons look like that.  Churches, not so much from being stored in stacks.  

The word zaftig comes to mind!

[Flex Mentallo]

23 hours ago, RareHighGrade said:

And that fact is that the virgin unpressed 9.4 likely had a plump rounded spine, which has now been pressed flat in the 9.6 version.  Many collectors (at least those who have been around long enough to see those unicorns) would prefer the former to the latter.  I don't have a problem with all types of pressing (e.g., pressing out creases that are not near the spine), but once the spine of a pedigree book has been pancaked, it can never be returned to its original form.

It's all quite de-pressing really.

[The Lions Den]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:06 PM, lou_fine said:

I was only made aware of this Subby 23 by a PM which I had received from @MasterChief last night along with a couple of other scans as he also can't figure out how CGC is coming up with some of these grades on some of these books from the Promise Collection. 

Start at the top and work your way down...

[lou_fine]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:18 AM, linmoth said:

I’m really glad they are going through HA. We’ll get a nice catalog and you know they will do a first class job! The collection deserves that!

I guess it's really a case of to each, their own, but personally I would have much prefer the books were going through CC as opposed to HA.  

Any bets that if the books were going through CC, there would be far far fewer cases of "damaged" books encased in what are rather obviously and sometimes blatantly overgraded holders.  Think back to the big Jon Berk Auction on CC back in 2017 when we had this wonderful 150+ page "group hug" thread on these very same boards here and as far as I can remember, not a single post about possibly overgraded books while the auction was taking place.  Of course, no real incentive there for CGC since CC is a competitor to their very own affiliated auction house.  

As for an auction catalog, CC also produces one for their Event Auctions like the one they did for the Jon Berk Auction, but definitely not as nicely laid out and formated like the one from Heritage.  As for their auction listing descriptions, they are most definitely the worst by far as in most cases, they just simply list the title, grade, PQ, CGC label notes, and then sort of expect the book to sell itself after that.  Definitely not the all out hype that CL does when it comes to their auction listing descriptions for their Featured Auction books, whereby you are almost tempted to throw in a bid after reading that flowery overblown description of theirs, even though you might have had zero interest in the book to start with. 

Being a bit selfish though, I guess there's also a personal reason why I would have prefer the books to have gone through CC, as opposed to going through Heritage.  I believe the auction would have been done in a slightly different format and rollout which might possibly have made it a bit easier for some of the smaller players with shallower pockets to have a better shot at getting some of these books here.  I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not.  

Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind.  One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades.  With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them.  Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it.    

Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace.  

 

[lou_fine]

On 5/15/2021 at 12:19 PM, RareHighGrade said:

On 5/15/2021 at 12:01 PM, lou_fine said:

I actually found this comment from Brian to be a little bit refreshing because he's simply stating a fact that everybody knows, but don't ever want to say.  

And that fact is that the virgin unpressed 9.4 likely had a plump rounded spine, which has now been pressed flat in the 9.6 version.  Many collectors (at least those who have been around long enough to see those unicorns) would prefer the former to the latter. 

 

1 hour ago, Flex Mentallo said:

It's all quite de-pressing really.

Are the two of you also one of these grumpy old men from way back in the day before Heritage arrived on the scene back in 2002 and before Matt took over the grading side of the business back in 2016?  

If so, it's no longer the Stone Ages as we are now into the 21st century where it's all about not only the square corners, but also flat, flat, flat like a tasty yummy pancake.  So, if you even dare to turn in one of those co-called unicorns of yours with the plump rounded spines, just know that you and your book will be taken out behind the woodshed and given your just and deserved dues upon being graded.      

[jimjum12]

20 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I guess it's really a case of to each, their own, but personally I would have much prefer the books were going through CC as opposed to HA.  

Any bets that if the books were going through CC, there would be far far fewer cases of "damaged" books encased in what are rather obviously and sometimes blatantly overgraded holders.  Think back to the big Jon Berk Auction on CC back in 2017 when we had this wonderful 150+ page "group hug" thread on these very same boards here and as far as I can remember, not a single post about possibly overgraded books while the auction was taking place.  Of course, no real incentive there for CGC since CC is a competitor to their very own affiliated auction house.  

As for an auction catalog, CC also produces one for their Event Auctions like the one they did for the Jon Berk Auction, but definitely not as nicely laid out and formated like the one from Heritage.  As for their auction listing descriptions, they are most definitely the worst by far as in most cases, they just simply list the title, grade, PQ, CGC label notes, and then sort of expect the book to sell itself after that.  Definitely not the all out hype that CL does when it comes to their auction listing descriptions for their Featured Auction books, whereby you are almost tempted to throw in a bid after reading that flowery overblown description of theirs, even though you might have had zero interest in the book to start with. 

Being a bit selfish though, I guess there's also a personal reason why I would have prefer the books to have gone through CC, as opposed to going through Heritage.  I believe the auction would have been done in a slightly different format and rollout which might possibly have made it a bit easier for some of the smaller players with shallower pockets to have a better shot at getting some of these books here.  I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not.  

Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind.  One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades.  With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them.  Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it.    

Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace.  

 

... one thing you purists keep glossing over when casting accusations and blame at Heritage is that they were RETAINED by the consignor to maximize the return on these lots in a timely fashion. You've obviously never had a book pressed either, or you would be familiar with the ungodly long turnaround times involved with pressing. These books have not all been pressed, or this auction would be occurring long after you and I had been laid to rest. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Mmehdy]

1 hour ago, tabcom said:

June Auction Bronze

Is HA pump’n dumpin at the tippy top?

this auction doesn’t make sense to a long-time collector. It’s gonna require big money influx from non-collectors. It is a spectacle best view from the sidelines.

This could be the big next trend, especially with a large number of Bronze collections out there. However, the "promise collection: is the last of the GA OO 5000 book collection in existence. As a GA collector who hopes to snag 5/10 of these books, great...suck some of that speculative money out of the GA upcoming auction and divert it to this...we should all be promoting this auction....LOL

[linmoth]

39 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I guess it's really a case of to each, their own, but personally I would have much prefer the books were going through CC as opposed to HA.  

Any bets that if the books were going through CC, there would be far far fewer cases of "damaged" books encased in what are rather obviously and sometimes blatantly overgraded holders.  Think back to the big Jon Berk Auction on CC back in 2017 when we had this wonderful 150+ page "group hug" thread on these very same boards here and as far as I can remember, not a single post about possibly overgraded books while the auction was taking place.  Of course, no real incentive there for CGC since CC is a competitor to their very own affiliated auction house.  

As for an auction catalog, CC also produces one for their Event Auctions like the one they did for the Jon Berk Auction, but definitely not as nicely laid out and formated like the one from Heritage.  As for their auction listing descriptions, they are most definitely the worst by far as in most cases, they just simply list the title, grade, PQ, CGC label notes, and then sort of expect the book to sell itself after that.  Definitely not the all out hype that CL does when it comes to their auction listing descriptions for their Featured Auction books, whereby you are almost tempted to throw in a bid after reading that flowery overblown description of theirs, even though you might have had zero interest in the book to start with. 

Being a bit selfish though, I guess there's also a personal reason why I would have prefer the books to have gone through CC, as opposed to going through Heritage.  I believe the auction would have been done in a slightly different format and rollout which might possibly have made it a bit easier for some of the smaller players with shallower pockets to have a better shot at getting some of these books here.  I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not.  

Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind.  One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades.  With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them.  Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it.    

Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace.  

 

As u said “to each their own”

[Sarg]

4 hours ago, Funnybooks said:

Despite Al having said he never penciled a PL cover? How is this probably Feldstein when he has publicly acknowledged the contrary?

Because it strongly resembles Al's style, and he was working for Iger at the time. Yes, he denied drawing a PL cover, but I don't believe anyone actually showed the PL 17 cover to him, because they already "knew" it was Baker. It's also possible that it was actually drawn as a splash page, but re-used as a cover. 

 

[lou_fine]

35 minutes ago, linmoth said:

As u said “to each their own”

Yes, indeed!!!  

[lou_fine]

50 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

... one thing you purists keep glossing over when casting accusations and blame at Heritage is that they were RETAINED by the consignor to maximize the return on these lots in a timely fashion. You've obviously never had a book pressed either, or you would be familiar with the ungodly long turnaround times involved with pressing. These books have not all been pressed, or this auction would be occurring long after you and I had been laid to rest. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Ummmm..................I believe you are not living in the real world here and probably in some kind of idealistic dream world if you actually believe this collection of books is sitting parked at the end of the line behind all of the other books that CCS and CGC received for pressing and grading prior to getting these books in from the Promise Collection here. If anything, these books will be both pressed and graded according to the rollout schedule which Heritage wants, as opposed to being done based upon CCS's and CGC's schedule.  

In fact, I actually believe there is a very very strong chance here that the books posted so far from the Promise Collection here did not even follow the standard operational process that all other regular books would have taken when submitted into CCS and CGC for processing, and were actually given their own unique processing flow.  

[comicnoir]

40 minutes ago, Sarg said:

Because it strongly resembles Al's style, and he was working for Iger at the time. Yes, he denied drawing a PL cover, but I don't believe anyone actually showed the PL 17 cover to him, because they already "knew" it was Baker. It's also possible that it was actually drawn as a splash page, but re-used as a cover. 

 

Actually it doesn't look like Al. The hair is definitely Baker. Baker signature 2 middle fingers is present. I met Al twice and the topic of Baker came up. They worked next to each other at Iger and he said Baker taught him everything about drawing, especially females. Al's style? You mean like Junior and Meet Corliss Archer? Give me a break.

Edited May 16, 2021 by comicnoir

[thehumantorch]

14 hours ago, Flex Mentallo said:

Bah, that's nothing. In the voluntary sector, they expect results without so much as a cup of tea!

Most discouraging is working in the public sector where they don't expect results and I couldn't even meet that expectation.  

[Funnybooks]

9 minutes ago, comicnoir said:

Actually it doesn't look like Al. The hair is definitely Baker. Baker signature 2 middle fingers is present. I met Al twice and the topic of Baker came up. They worked next to each other at Iger and he said Baker taught him everything about drawing, especially females. Al's style? You mean like Junior and Meet Corliss Archer? Give me a break.

100% agree. To entirely dismiss this cover as a non-Baker drawn cover seems erroneous. I can be convinced that Al may have had a hand in inking parts/all of PL but this cover does not appear to be Feldstein. We will have to agree to disagree as we will likely never know the truth. 

[thehumantorch]

5 minutes ago, szav said:

Worse yet, producing results in a public sector job and getting run out for making everyone else look bad.

I never had that problem  

 

[skypinkblu]

13 minutes ago, comicnoir said:

Actually it doesn't look like Al. The hair is definitely Baker. Baker signature 2 middle fingers is present. I met Al twice and the topic of Baker came up. They worked next to each other at Iger and he said Baker taught him everything about drawing, especially females. Al's style? You mean like Junior and Meet Corliss Archer? Give me a break.

It doesn't look like Feldstein to me, either, totally different styles.  I can't see why this couldn't be Baker, lots of artists varied a bit.

[Funnybooks]

53 minutes ago, Sarg said:

Because it strongly resembles Al's style, and he was working for Iger at the time. Yes, he denied drawing a PL cover, but I don't believe anyone actually showed the PL 17 cover to him, because they already "knew" it was Baker. It's also possible that it was actually drawn as a splash page, but re-used as a cover. 

 

I appreciate your opinion but I can't entirely agree. Anything is possible as you postulate but I'm firmly entrenched in the Baker camp with a likely assist from a studio mate or two The chances this cover image was originally created as a splash ( by Al)  but ultimately used as a cover is a thin hypothesis but not implausible.