They're Still Out There! 22 22

[walclark]

10 minutes ago, Badger said:

Given that it is a D Copy, known for foxing, and given the looks of that brown area on the cover are you sure its not foxing? CGC hates foxing and are harder on it than stains sometimes.

Grader’s notes said “light cover tanning, light spine stress limes, small, very light crease right top cover, very light foxing cover.”  Admittedly, I’ve only subbed a few dozen raws purchased from HA, but this is the first one I’ve had that graded several grades lower than the HA grade.  I’ve always found them to be within a half grade either direction.

 

[Badger]

6 minutes ago, walclark said:

Grader’s notes said “light cover tanning, light spine stress limes, small, very light crease right top cover, very light foxing cover.”  Admittedly, I’ve only subbed a few dozen raws purchased from HA, but this is the first one I’ve had that graded several grades lower than the HA grade.  I’ve always found them to be within a half grade either direction.

 

I am sure its the foxing that brought it down; was the interior cover tanned? I agree that Heritage is usually pretty close but I have had a couple of surprises from them.

[The Lions Den]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I have been told by many that you are pretty much risking a severe case of punishment grading if you don't take the necessary precautions when you send a book in for grading with this current grading regime in place.  

Really? I've seen books that I felt were undergraded and books that I felt were overgraded, but I've never seen an example of punishment grading...  

 

[jimjum12]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I would most definitely agree with both of you in terms of the Allentown books since this is by far the smallest GA pedigree out there with a total of only 135 pedigree books in the entire collection, and virtually almost all of them in HG condition.  

As such, the Allentown's are generally locked away in private collection and hardly ever appears in the marketplace.  In terms of overall condition, I remember taking a look at the early Fox books, and if I remember correctly, every single one of them (save for one) were either tied with the Church or graded higher than the Church copy in a head to head for the ones that have shown up in the marketplace over the years.  

I made the mistake of putting 3 of them up for auction way way back in the big Greg Manning Auction back in 2000 when CGC first opened their doors to test out this new 3rd party independent grading company at the time.  From a strict money point of view though, probably not a mistake since I had picked then up for only 1.5X to 2.0X top of guide a few years earlier and they ending up selling for 3.5X to 7X top of guide.  Still, wish I had the books in my personal collection since there's only 135 of them in existence.  

I remember that auction and had the catalog for a long time. I, for one, never dreamed the slab thing would catch on like it did. I miss those days ... I just came across a Marnin Rosenberg catalog from 2003 in my piles of magazines.... it's probably now a collectible itself... and still in the kind of shape Marnin would approve of. I liked him... he'd sit and talk to you on the phone for an hour .... except for maybe that week when he was fielding calls for the Bethlehem sci-fi's and horrors. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Mmehdy]

4 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I would most definitely agree with both of you in terms of the Allentown books since this is by far the smallest GA pedigree out there with a total of only 135 pedigree books in the entire collection, and virtually almost all of them in HG condition.  

As such, the Allentown's are generally locked away in private collection and hardly ever appears in the marketplace.  In terms of overall condition, I remember taking a look at the early Fox books, and if I remember correctly, every single one of them (save for one) were either tied with the Church or graded higher than the Church copy in a head to head for the ones that have shown up in the marketplace over the years.  

I made the mistake of putting 3 of them up for auction way way back in the big Greg Manning Auction back in 2000 when CGC first opened their doors to test out this new 3rd party independent grading company at the time.  From a strict money point of view though, probably not a mistake since I had picked then up for only 1.5X to 2.0X top of guide a few years earlier and they ending up selling for 3.5X to 7X top of guide.  Still, wish I had the books in my personal collection since there's only 135 of them in existence.  

Allentown is the poster child for quality over quantity. The promise collection is both quality and quantity which is quite unusual. I am wondering if anyone has seen any of these promise slabs in person yet? The Cap allentown #1 had a million dollar offer many years ago. It will be interesting to see how they compare in person to Chuch or SF.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Mmehdy

[reality_consensus]

10 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

Allentown is the poster child for quality over quantity. The promise collection is both quality and quantity which is quite unusual. I am wondering if anyone has seen any of these promise slabs in person yet? The Cap allentown #1 had a million dollar offer many years ago. It will be interesting to see how they compare in person to Chuch or SF.

GreatCaesarsGhost 

Edited May 26, 2021 by reality_consensus

[mstrange]

52 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

Allentown is the poster child for quality over quantity. The promise collection is both quality and quantity which is quite unusual. I am wondering if anyone has seen any of these promise slabs in person yet? The Cap allentown #1 had a million dollar offer many years ago. It will be interesting to see how they compare in person to Chuch or SF.

@GreatCaesarsGhost

[sagii]

1 hour ago, Mmehdy said:

Allentown is the poster child for quality over quantity. The promise collection is both quality and quantity which is quite unusual. I am wondering if anyone has seen any of these promise slabs in person yet? The Cap allentown #1 had a million dollar offer many years ago. It will be interesting to see how they compare in person to Chuch or SF.

 Church books aside, the Allentown pedigree has always intrigued me: only 135 books to go around, and when you factor in there are way more GA collectors than that , and then if you throw in the probability of people owning/hoarding more than one book from the collection, that means even less to go around and making the odds slim to none of ever owning a book from it ever. You see one a year, ....if that! 

 

[walclark]

4 hours ago, Badger said:

I am sure its the foxing that brought it down; was the interior cover tanned? I agree that Heritage is usually pretty close but I have had a couple of surprises from them.

Nope, not tan on the inside.  And I agree, always surprises when buying raw.  The last raw D copy I bought from HA came back 1.5 higher than the HA grade.  The pendulum swings both ways. 

[jimjum12]

9 minutes ago, walclark said:

Nope, not tan on the inside.  And I agree, always surprises when buying raw.  The last raw D copy I bought from HA came back 1.5 higher than the HA grade.  The pendulum swings both ways. 

Lon Allen signed off on a lot of the Crippen's ... I bought several raw issues of Prize Comics that were all sweet for the grade. I wish I'd been smart enough to keep them ... sharp mid grade and less than a hundred ... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Pantodude]

The Tec140 did well on CL last night?  Where else can one hunt it down? 

[LordRahl]

Haven't been on the boards in over a year but I see nothing has changed. For those of you that keep bringing up over-graded books you either have short memories or maybe you just don't pay attention to silver age peds as they are probably beneath you golden age BSD's. I remember very distinctly when the Twin Cities ped came out, a few boardies blasting CGC for over-grading. People jumped on the bandwagon of course and everyone was posting books they thought were over-graded. Were some of those books over-graded? Probably. Some were probably under-graded and some were dead on. The people grading these books are just that.... people. Not computers. People make mistakes. Also there is a great deal of subjectivity in grading. Factor in the fact that I'm sure when these peds come through, it's notable. These guys aren't seeing books like this on a daily basis so there may be a natural tendency to be overly exuberant and be more lenient. The Twin Cities ped has now been in the market for over a decade and I don't think it's considered a particularly over-graded or inferior ped. 

Oh and for the CGC/HA conspiracy theory crowd... the Twin Cities ped wasn't submitted by HA. How do you explain that?

[batman_fan]

9 hours ago, LordRahl said:

Haven't been on the boards in over a year but I see nothing has changed. For those of you that keep bringing up over-graded books you either have short memories or maybe you just don't pay attention to silver age peds as they are probably beneath you golden age BSD's. I remember very distinctly when the Twin Cities ped came out, a few boardies blasting CGC for over-grading. People jumped on the bandwagon of course and everyone was posting books they thought were over-graded. Were some of those books over-graded? Probably. Some were probably under-graded and some were dead on. The people grading these books are just that.... people. Not computers. People make mistakes. Also there is a great deal of subjectivity in grading. Factor in the fact that I'm sure when these peds come through, it's notable. These guys aren't seeing books like this on a daily basis so there may be a natural tendency to be overly exuberant and be more lenient. The Twin Cities ped has now been in the market for over a decade and I don't think it's considered a particularly over-graded or inferior ped. 

Oh and for the CGC/HA conspiracy theory crowd... the Twin Cities ped wasn't submitted by HA. How do you explain that?

Not sure how to explain Twin City not being submitted by HA but somehow I feel aliens are involved. 

[aardvark88]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

somehow I feel aliens are involved. 

Yes, as fresh vintage collections still being found like Superworld Ted's 'Golden Goose:'

[lou_fine]

21 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Really? I've seen books that I felt were undergraded and books that I felt were overgraded, but I've never seen an example of punishment grading...  

 

Ummm.....................wouldn't that simply be nothing more than the polar opposite of what many call here as being "gift grades" by CGC?  

I guess you must not be paying too much attention as I believe we just saw one posted here earlier:  

Now, would that appear to be your usual CGC 7.0 graded book, especially if the Graders Notes identifies the defects to be "light spine stress lines" and "moderate creasing" to front cover, and yet the owner cannot see these defects because they apparently do not exist.    

[LordRahl]

56 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Ummm.....................wouldn't that simply be nothing more than the polar opposite of what many call here as being "gift grades" by CGC?  

I guess you must not be paying too much attention as I believe we just saw one posted here earlier:  

Now, would that appear to be your usual CGC 7.0 graded book, especially if the Graders Notes identifies the defects to be "light spine stress lines" and "moderate creasing" to front cover, and yet the owner cannot see these defects because they apparently do not exist.    

So you're making a determination that this was "punishment grading" from a picture of the front cover of a book, in a slab? That might explain why you always seem to think CGC is wrong and you are right in respect to grade. Because of course grading from a picture of a book of only the front cover in a slab is more accurate than grading with the book raw and in hand 

[Funnybooks]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Ummm.....................wouldn't that simply be nothing more than the polar opposite of what many call here as being "gift grades" by CGC?  

I guess you must not be paying too much attention as I believe we just saw one posted here earlier:  

Now, would that appear to be your usual CGC 7.0 graded book, especially if the Graders Notes identifies the defects to be "light spine stress lines" and "moderate creasing" to front cover, and yet the owner cannot see these defects because they apparently do not exist.    

BC pic?

[BabyAteMyDingo]

On 5/24/2021 at 7:43 PM, Robot Man said:

 Hard to confirm if the Promise books are truly the best copies in existence. Sounds like most, if not all, have had something done to them. I guess if you simply take the biased word of CGC saying they are the highest graded on their census, I guess it justifies the record prices they will surely bring to a lot of buyers. 

There is the Church collection and there is everything else. 

I imagine many buyers with money will do just that. Take CGC's word for it without taking into consideration CGC has a vested interest in making certain they are sold at top - if not record - prices. I think CGC and Heritage have the same owners to a degree, do they not? Only later will the true comparisons to the Church collection start to happen. Maybe then they will feel like they went too fast.

[Rip]

I thought the speculation thread was supposed to be over in modern.

[Mmehdy]

12 minutes ago, BabyAteMyDingo said:

I imagine many buyers with money will do just that. Take CGC's word for it without taking into consideration CGC has a vested interest in making certain they are sold at top - if not record - prices. I think CGC and Heritage have the same owners to a degree, do they not? Only later will the true comparisons to the Church collection start to happen. Maybe then they will feel like they went too fast.

The GA comic book market. widget buyer  vs TCBC will determine demand and price. CGC pressing the books, HA.com whether or not a shareholder of the CGC are side issues. Maybe on 100 books maybe not, this is OVER 5000 and market conditions are gonna control.

 The promise books, whether CGC graded or not are great period.