They're Still Out There! 22 22

[buttock]

15 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I do it in a similar manner, but I look at the defect and try to peg the range that this defect would be maximum allowed in.

At first look at the Subby book with the missing corner ( @lou_fine THAT was the book I was talking about) I couldn't see how a book missing an entire corner could be taken out of the VG range so I personally would give the book the maximum VG grade allowed, which is VG/Fine.

 

And THIS might be why CGC went with the grade it did. If this is a common bindery defect for that issue that would have very well been factored into the grade. There are MANY books with printing defects that are allowed in the grades that wouldn't be on other issues.

If that's the case, I can fully understand why they graded it higher than most would. They treated it like a miscut rather than a chew. And we've seen lots of miscut VF+ books from the GA. I'm guessing they just attributed all of the missing paper from one corner into the grade the way another miscut book might be missing paper along an entire edge.

 

Mods notified. 

[cheetah]

11 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Or there was something on the press that was tearing that entire corner off. Kinda like Marvel Chipping but on steroids.

At high speeds you could have that happen 1000's of times before someone realized it was happening and stopped the presses to correct it.

There are always odd stories like this.  When I went diving in Bonaire in the early 1980s, there was only one bread cutting machine on the island.  One of the blades broke and it took a month to get a replacement.  For the entire time I was there, every loaf of white bread had one double piece that the cook religiously fed to the seagulls each morning.

[N e r V]

21 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I do it in a similar manner, but I look at the defect and try to peg the range that this defect would be maximum allowed in.

At first look at the Subby book with the missing corner ( @lou_fine THAT was the book I was talking about) I couldn't see how a book missing an entire corner could be taken out of the VG range so I personally would give the book the maximum VG grade allowed, which is VG/Fine.

 

And THIS might be why CGC went with the grade it did. If this is a common bindery defect for that issue that would have very well been factored into the grade. There are MANY books with printing defects that are allowed in the grades that wouldn't be on other issues.

If that's the case, I can fully understand why they graded it higher than most would. They treated it like a miscut rather than a chew. And we've seen lots of miscut VF+ books from the GA. I'm guessing they just attributed all of the missing paper from one corner into the grade the way another miscut book might be missing paper along an entire edge.

 

Here’s another copy that seems from the scan to be missing a bit on the lower left corner although not extreme.

 

 

This 9.4 is fine in that area though.

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by N e r V

[VintageComics]

7 minutes ago, buttock said:

Mods notified. 

Pretty sure the entire chat forum has me in ignore by now.

[MrBedrock]

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

Pretty sure the entire chat forum has me in ignore by now.

Do you think that many people care enough?

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

Here’s another copy that seems from the scan to be missing a bit on the lower left corner although not extreme.

 

To me that 7.0 appears to be the same book as the 8.0 and the 7.5.  Looks like the pressing took a toll.  The tell tale in my view is the little dark dot (and even fainter dot slight left a bit below) that is on all three books below the upper left corner.

Edited May 22, 2021 by sfcityduck

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

Ok after looking at this Subby cover so much, will someone please explain to me what’s the deal with the goofy looking guy in the water 

[Northwest]

1 hour ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Ok after looking at this Subby cover so much, will someone please explain to me what’s the deal with the goofy looking guy in the water 

The character is Verrill Shark who was a Timely villain, originally a pirate who later joined the Axis in WW2.  He was trying to capture the Timely invaders, hence the subterfuge on the cover.  

Edited May 23, 2021 by Northwest

[Mmehdy]

2 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

Do you think that many people care enough?

I hope so, this board and opinions are welcome, if we disagree big deal. I come on these boards to learn things I don't know about..even after 50 years as a TCBC.

To change my mind over time about major issues such as restored books Purple  vs Blue label. That brings up a good point about how over time one can change a opinion that at the time I held it, I would say I never change it. When I first come on the boards, I had a very low opinion of restored purple label books. If fact, very early on I called them "Junk". I was wrong then, dead wrong. I made cardinal mistake of looking at the label in this instance a color of a label to make a blanket judgment about all of those books. Over the years as the CGC began to relax and allow for restoration which was "ok" or not label changing, the color of the label became a joke to me. It took a lot of board members forcing me to revisit the issue time and time again to slowly change to the point now, that I look at the book, THEN the label and if the only one reasonably priced is purple so be it. I will not buy as a personal preference a "franked" book which has been totally restored, reconstructed and painted etc that issue still in my mind is unacceptable to me  for purchase or to be part of my collection.

 The same goes for the discussion above about a "rat" chew vs a printing error and by the way in my opinion it is a "printing error" unless rat teeth are perfect. I can understand the concern with the grade of that book. Is it a 8.5...I really do not thing a lot of us can tell the difference between a 8.5 and 8.0 and really who cares. I can see if you get back in a time machine and buy that Subby it would be in the same condition as it stands today...amazing. I not ignoring the fact that there is a condition issue here and that it is not perfect. But very few GA's population wise are. But the wonderful thing about these promise books is that the GA comic book market will determine what price it is worth in 2021 and time will tell upon eventual resale or trade whether that was a fair and reasonable price. Given the fact there are over 5000 top GA books coming on, this might be the Best Buy out there time wise.

I think the real interesting issue here is gonna be how many books % wise get taken out for long term collectors for their personal collection, how many speculators will get what %, and how many dealers will buy, hold, and then resell within 3 years for a major profit. The legacy and value  of this collection will depend on those percentages. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Mmehdy

[N e r V]

2 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

To me that 7.0 appears to be the same book as the 8.0 and the 7.5.  Looks like the pressing took a toll.  The tell tale in my view is the little dark dot (and even fainter dot slight left a bit below) that is on all three books below the upper left corner.

Gawd I hope not. That would be incredibly sad to be a 7.0, 7.5 and 8.0. Talk about getting around…

[jimbo_7071]

2 hours ago, N e r V said:

Gawd I hope not. That would be incredibly sad to be a 7.0, 7.5 and 8.0. Talk about getting around…

It's definitely the same book. The discoloration around the staple is a dead giveaway. And yes, it looks worse after pressing—yet it has a higher grade; that's how CGC rolls.

Edited May 23, 2021 by jimbo_7071

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, jimbo_7071 said:

3 hours ago, N e r V said:

Gawd I hope not. That would be incredibly sad to be a 7.0, 7.5 and 8.0. Talk about getting around…

It's definitely the same book. The discoloration around the staple is a dead giveaway. And yes, it looks worse after pressing—yet it has a higher grade; that's how CGC rolls.

Not necessarily so as @N e r V listed the order incorrectly as the book went from CGC 7.0 up to CGC 8.0 before settling in at CGC 7.5.  

Looks like this exact same copy of Subby sold for $661.25 as a CGC 7.0 graded copy in 2003, then for $1,035 as a CGC 8.0 graded copy in 2004, before coming in at only $805 as a CGC 7.5 graded copy in 2005.  Looks like nobody made money here on the all of the resubs except for Heritage, CGC, and the pressing company(s).  

Edited May 23, 2021 by lou_fine

[jimbo_7071]

1 minute ago, lou_fine said:

Looks like nobody made money here on the all of the resubs except for Heritage, CGC, and the grading company(s).  

There should be a meme for that because it is so often true.

[The Lions Den]

17 hours ago, N e r V said:

My personal range was 7.0-8.0 with 8.0 being generous. Price being equal I’d take it over the 7.5/8.0 copy still. So I think many of us believe that ones over graded at least. Wonder how bidders will react? 

I like the range you're in. And because it's you, I'll go with this one instead of the "golf-clap"...    

[Jayman]

39 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I like the range you're in. And because it's you, I'll go with this one instead of the "golf-clap"...    

[LearnedHand]

On 5/18/2021 at 1:58 PM, Mmehdy said:

Second research all price history and similar books with major pedigrees. Especially if you can trace a 20 year price appreciation history to gauge how much you might overpay now and when recovery will take effect...

 

 For those who have said I cannot afford this collection, I would try to buy one "book". First you are gonna thank me in 3/5 years and say I wish had bought more, Second you are not gonna want to part with that book unless you get 2x or 5x what you paid, and third if you had to sell some dupes or low grade material which can easily be bought again in the open market, maybe even in better shape when you rebuy, you are gonna thank me. We have over 5000 books here, you should be able to find one, do not give up....

 

Once the last book is sold, everyone will realize the opportunity we had. ...

 

With that in mind,  when it comes to the price at the "time" ,take a look forward, you have the opportunity at will thousands of others to obtain one the highest graded or top copy, not in a auction where it stands alone, but in a crowd of 5000 others. Just like I competed at the SDCC against the Mega dealer the the "Book Sail" at the time as they had gone back. and thumbing for books for another buy. There is enough for everyone, this time as well and do not let the "book Sail" types discourage you. I did not.

 

 

 

If your post is supposed to offer advice for those who need it, I think this is very considerate.  

I would point out, however, that the statements above are very broad brush.  Of all the so-called pedigrees, very few actually command a true premium based purely on the collection's name, and not a given book's grade.  Nothing against this new pedigree - it is truly amazing.  And, GA 9.6s and 9.8s are always going to draw a lot of attention.  But, assuming it's a good idea to spend record amounts of money on any book in this collection assuming they will all perform comparably to top-tier pedigrees, well ... time will tell.

  

 

[FlyingDonut]

On 5/22/2021 at 8:28 AM, tth2 said:

That good old muggy Washington DC weather!

My air conditioning bill to keep white paged books white is astronomical.

[N e r V]

21 minutes ago, LearnedHand said:

 

If your post is supposed to offer advice for those who need it, I think this is very considerate.  

I would point out, however, that the statements above are very broad brush.  Of all the so-called pedigrees, very few actually command a true premium based purely on the collection's name, and not a given book's grade.  Nothing against this new pedigree - it is truly amazing.  And, GA 9.6s and 9.8s are always going to draw a lot of attention.  But, assuming it's a good idea to spend record amounts of money on any book in this collection assuming they will all perform comparably to top-tier pedigrees, well ... time will tell.

  

 

Eh, I don’t know. Depending on the book and the pedigree I pay more for one just like I do for white pages vs lesser quality. White mountain, Spokane , River city, Aurora, Cosmic Aeroplane, etc.. will usually get me to pony up a bit more. Probably a bigger premium if it’s a 40’s or 50’s pedigree vs SA and BA books but I still go harder for one. 
 

So I guess I’m in the minority ?

[jimjum12]

4 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Eh, I don’t know. Depending on the book and the pedigree I pay more for one just like I do for white pages vs lesser quality. White mountain, Spokane , River city, Aurora, Cosmic Aeroplane, etc.. will usually get me to pony up a bit more. Probably a bigger premium if it’s a 40’s or 50’s pedigree vs SA and BA books but I still go harder for one. 
 

So I guess I’m in the minority ?

My adventures with pedigrees usually involve Atlas books. Often the only high grade Atlas books ARE pedigrees. I really like Circle 8's for them. I have paid a premium, but how much of that premium is Ped and how much scarcity ? To generate a multiple I think the pedigree has to be truly exceptional ... not just structure, but PQ, Gloss, suppleness, lack of foxing, tanning, and rust .... The Churches qualify. The Spokanes, Salidas, White Mountains, ...these are all examples that I would bid more aggressively for. I'm sure there are others, it's just that those are ones I have actually owned and experienced at one time or another. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[jimbo_7071]

23 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Eh, I don’t know. Depending on the book and the pedigree I pay more for one just like I do for white pages vs lesser quality. White mountain, Spokane , River city, Aurora, Cosmic Aeroplane, etc.. will usually get me to pony up a bit more. Probably a bigger premium if it’s a 40’s or 50’s pedigree vs SA and BA books but I still go harder for one. 
 

So I guess I’m in the minority ?

Like you, I will pay a premium for page quality. I paid north of $5K for this book because it had white pages and was graded in the era when CGC was more strict about page quality. I really didn't care about the pedigree designation. If the pages had been OW/W, then I would not have bid over $2,500. CGC has relaxed their page quality standards quite a bit, so "WHITE" doesn't mean what it used to, but even with newer slabs, I'll bid more for WHITE than for OW/W. (I don't bid on anything below OW/W unless the book is in an old-label slab, and then I'll occasionally go down to OW.)

Edited May 24, 2021 by jimbo_7071