Worst Stan Lee signature placement? 0

[HarrisonJohn]

On 5/21/2021 at 6:00 PM, Math Teacher said:

Yes, that is a poor signature placement. But why, oh why, would you get Stan Lee to sign a book that he had absolutely nothing to do with?

Sometimes I wonder if people see his name "Stan Lee presents..." inside and think it means something. 

[lordbyroncomics]

2 hours ago, HarrisonJohn said:

Sometimes I wonder if people see his name "Stan Lee presents..." inside and think it means something. 

That's it exactly- or they believe Stan founded the company or something so it's akin to Walt Disney just signing any Disney product. In that case, Martin Goodman should have just autographed all sorts of Marvel stuff.

[catman76]

All of them. There's nothing worse than a big scribble on the cover of any comic.

[catman76]

3 hours ago, HarrisonJohn said:

Sometimes I wonder if people see his name "Stan Lee presents..." inside and think it means something. 

They do. They don't even have to see that or even ever laid eyes on a comic book to think he wrote and created everything. In the 60s he started his self promotion thing and conned everyone into thinking he did everything and everyone has just bought into it so much that now almost any random person on the street knows who he is but actually doesn't know anything he ever did and thinks he is some god. All that matters to people is that they are told he is great and they go along with it.

Then you have m-o-r-ons making videos when he died crying and acting like they knew anything about the guy and buying into his self promotion con. It was pathetic. There were no videos of anyone crying when Ditko died.

Edited May 23, 2021 by catman76
censorship

[BigLeagueCHEW]

[Iconic1s]

Absolutely no disrespect meant to the Stan Lee fans here...

I personally think ANY book Stan ‘the man’ signed is a misplaced signature.  I was a hard core ‘true believer’ for many years and had several books (not keys) signed by him in my collection.  Slowly, as I did more research, I came to the conclusion that if even half of the things I started learning about how he treated his ‘co’- creators were even half true then I wanted nothing to do with his signature on any book.  I now own zero books with his signature.  But man, I wanted so hard to believe... the video below (take it or leave it) was the tie breaker for me in my love hate relationship with Stan ‘the man’ Lee.

[Namtak]

20 hours ago, Iconic1s said:

Absolutely no disrespect meant to the Stan Lee fans here...

I personally think ANY book Stan ‘the man’ signed is a misplaced signature.  I was a hard core ‘true believer’ for many years and had several books (not keys) signed by him in my collection.  Slowly, as I did more research, I came to the conclusion that if even half of the things I started learning about how he treated his ‘co’- creators were even half true then I wanted nothing to do with his signature on any book.  I now own zero books with his signature.  But man, I wanted so hard to believe... the video below (take it or leave it) was the tie breaker for me in my love hate relationship with Stan ‘the man’ Lee.

Great but needs subtitles hard to understand him accent and tone of voice

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/22/2021 at 11:42 PM, catman76 said:

They do. They don't even have to see that or even ever laid eyes on a comic book to think he wrote and created everything. In the 60s he started his self promotion thing and conned everyone into thinking he did everything and everyone has just bought into it so much that now almost any random person on the street knows who he is but actually doesn't know anything he ever did and thinks he is some god. All that matters to people is that they are told he is great and they go along with it.

Then you have m-o-r-ons making videos when he died crying and acting like they knew anything about the guy and buying into his self promotion con. It was pathetic. There were no videos of anyone crying when Ditko died.

Thank you. We must also consider the context that it was also a case of Marvel's corporate owners- first Chemical Corp and then Disney- needing to protect their ip investment by continuing the myth of Stan being the "creator". Even with evidence to the contrary. Of course, if you point out easily validated facts, you are instantly a Stan "basher", since we know how bad Stan has apparently had it. Or people say the same things, like Kirby didn't write good dialogue- and these things are *not* the issue being discussed. These people crying didn't even read a Silver Age Marvel. They just love the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the same devoted fans will literally leave comments about Stan Lee creating Wolverine.. they have no interest in disrupting the myth of the benevolent Geek Grandfather. People need myths. Roy Thomas instigated the 'Stan Lee Presents...' and Marvel enforced it but believe me, Stan didn't try to discourage them.

[Arkham]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:32 AM, wisbyron said:

I think you guys are giving Stan too much credit; he likely didn't even notice the Black Cat's face. He was a senior citizen being fed literally thousands of books so he was likely knocking them out and I don't mean that in any derogatory sense; he also was likely grinning and saying hello to people while doing this.

I was sitting here dumbfounded, thinking "he HAD to be doing that on purpose!" and wondering why he would be so malicious about handling other people's books... did he think he was bigger than the character or the book? Was this some kind of passive aggressive display of hating appearing at shows? 

BUT, then I read this and it actually makes a bunch more sense. 

[Arkham]

On 5/22/2021 at 10:49 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Stan loved signing on faces. 

Well... every face but his own: 

 

[D2]

@BlowUpTheMoon Provided this beauty. Stan also likes to sign over other face placed signatures:

Edited May 25, 2021 by D2

[JazzMan]

1 hour ago, D2 said:

@BlowUpTheMoon Provided this beauty. Stan also likes to sign over other face placed signatures:

This one takes the prize.  

There is a factor to consider, though - there's a couple of factors for the signature placement - either Stan got a comic and he chose where to sign, or, as it may be in many cases, the signature window actually determines the signature location.  

[lordbyroncomics]

44 minutes ago, JazzMan said:

This one takes the prize.  

There is a factor to consider, though - there's a couple of factors for the signature placement - either Stan got a comic and he chose where to sign, or, as it may be in many cases, the signature window actually determines the signature location.  

I really do believe it was a case of Stan barely glancing at the cover. His handler Max Anderson would handle the books and move them accordingly- if someone had an omnibus, Anderson would open it to the preferred page and hold it open for Stan- and Stan would glance down of course but then look up, grin, whatever. Of course I'm talking about his appearances around 2006-onwards, where he generally had to maximize his appearances by doing as many signings as possible. I know when he had smaller signings and VIP signing events it was a little more involved and personal. 

[D2]

2 hours ago, JazzMan said:

This one takes the prize.  

There is a factor to consider, though - there's a couple of factors for the signature placement - either Stan got a comic and he chose where to sign, or, as it may be in many cases, the signature window actually determines the signature location.  

 

1 hour ago, wisbyron said:

I really do believe it was a case of Stan barely glancing at the cover. His handler Max Anderson would handle the books and move them accordingly- if someone had an omnibus, Anderson would open it to the preferred page and hold it open for Stan- and Stan would glance down of course but then look up, grin, whatever. Of course I'm talking about his appearances around 2006-onwards, where he generally had to maximize his appearances by doing as many signings as possible. I know when he had smaller signings and VIP signing events it was a little more involved and personal. 

 

I *THINK* so too... we will never know, and Stan has been known to sign over signatures in the past. I once had a book signed by him, and same result, Stan nearly signed over a Claremont signature before his handler got in there quickly enough and guided him towards the bottom of the book.

At the rate he was signing books, I doubt very highly he was ever looking at what he signed. I can't see him caring. I wouldn't.

Edited May 25, 2021 by D2

[lordbyroncomics]

1 hour ago, D2 said:

 

 

I *THINK* so too... we will never know, and Stan has been known to sign over signatures in the past. I once had a book signed by him, and same result, Stan nearly signed over a Claremont signature before his handler got in there quickly enough and guided him towards the bottom of the book.

At the rate he was signing books, I doubt very highly he was ever looking at what he signed. I can't see him caring. I wouldn't.

Hey, I don't mean this in any snarky way  but I *know* this for a fact though admittedly just during a certain period. Stan might have adjusted his signing based on the nature of the signing. There were conventions where he'd literally have 500 people lined up around the aisle and there were signings when it was 50 people paying for a $500 VIP Pass so they got a little more personal time. Sadly, the only conclusive footage we've got of Stan signing is in the last year of his life where he's clearly out of it and Keya Morgan is reminding him how to sign his name. And the "fans" in that video are just as bad- none of them show any concern or speak up for their apparent hero.

 

But yeah- Stan's signing was a massive part of his income for over a decade and this can't be discounted: when you sign thousands of autographs dozens of times a year, you develop a system, whether consciously or unconsciously.

[eee91]

In defense of Stan's signings-

When he was a spry 80 year-old guy, his autographs were neat and sharp. Say what you want about him, but he used to be a comic book editor, so he knew the importance of making things pop visually. His signatures would get placed inside on page 1, or placed on the cover in negative space or somewhere that would look good and somewhat tidy. Like the ASM #129 or the ASM #200 posted earlier in the thread. 

But late in his life, his eyesight and hearing were terrible (as happens to most 90 year-olds). 

I'm gonna guess that most of those books where he signed his name over a character's face or over other people's sigs were in those last ten years of his life - 2009-2018 - when he could barely see. The ones from the end of his life are tough to look at - where he had trouble forming the "s" in Stan, or putting the two "e"'s in Lee next to each other. 

It's just too bad that there're so many of the late-in-life Stan sigs out there - and not more of the earlier nicer sigs. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by eee91

[D2]

17 hours ago, wisbyron said:

Hey, I don't mean this in any snarky way  but I *know* this for a fact though admittedly just during a certain period. Stan might have adjusted his signing based on the nature of the signing. There were conventions where he'd literally have 500 people lined up around the aisle and there were signings when it was 50 people paying for a $500 VIP Pass so they got a little more personal time. Sadly, the only conclusive footage we've got of Stan signing is in the last year of his life where he's clearly out of it and Keya Morgan is reminding him how to sign his name. And the "fans" in that video are just as bad- none of them show any concern or speak up for their apparent hero.

 

But yeah- Stan's signing was a massive part of his income for over a decade and this can't be discounted: when you sign thousands of autographs dozens of times a year, you develop a system, whether consciously or unconsciously.

No no, no snarkiness felt at all! Trust me, all good. I totally agree with you.

At the end of it, it was pretty sad. I got books signed by Stan in 2016 (had to look it up, can't believe it's been that long), and even then I felt bad for the poor guy. I had truly no concept of how extreme and intense this whole scene was, until I saw it first hand. You kind of just, have these expectations that these signings are easy and status quo until something like this really rattles the cage.

I remember seeing books signed by Stan on his last year and the quality of signatures from 2016 to 2018 was staggering. I mean, I guess I know people would be ignorant to the whole situation. It's his handlers that clearly ignored the poor signs that Stan was seriously struggling. Money. It can destroy.

[Arkham]

Wisbyron, eee91 - I agree... there seems to be a lot (my book above included) where the signature was smack-bang in the middle of the cover, regardless of what was already there. I suspect that's just the fastest way to get through a huge queue. He was amazing for even showing up and doing it and all the stories that came out about elder abuse etc (that probably had something to do with him being there signing) are sickening. 

[Poekaymon]

I don't collect signatures myself, but I am fine with them on blank covers or something common where the novelty is the signature itself (like on a reprint or a very common book).  Even when done well, signatures on keys sort of triggers me.  That AF15 is perhaps the saddest thing I've seen on this forum.

[lordbyroncomics]

On 5/26/2021 at 3:22 AM, eee91 said:

In defense of Stan's signings-

When he was a spry 80 year-old guy, his autographs were neat and sharp. Say what you want about him, but he used to be a comic book editor, so he knew the importance of making things pop visually. His signatures would get placed inside on page 1, or placed on the cover in negative space or somewhere that would look good and somewhat tidy. Like the ASM #129 or the ASM #200 posted earlier in the thread. 

But late in his life, his eyesight and hearing were terrible (as happens to most 90 year-olds). 

I'm gonna guess that most of those books where he signed his name over a character's face or over other people's sigs were in those last ten years of his life - 2009-2018 - when he could barely see. The ones from the end of his life are tough to look at - where he had trouble forming the "s" in Stan, or putting the two "e"'s in Lee next to each other. 

It's just too bad that there're so many of the late-in-life Stan sigs out there - and not more of the earlier nicer sigs. 

Actually, there's literally thousands of signatures out there of Stan's that are fine, I'm sure they out number the bleaker ones which would likely be post 2015-2016.

Stan was beginning his "signing as significant part of income" in the 1990s' when QVC and Home Shopping Network got hip to the speculator market and Stan signed few thousand Marvel books for sale on one of these channels. It really took off post 2005 when he started becoming a prolific and well-paid regular guest at the Wizard World shows of the world, where Stan's POW! Entertainment would get a significant portion of the down payment in CASH up front. This was carried over with other exhibition/convention companies as well. 

It's towards the end of his life that the signings increased, as if Stan's handlers knew he had less time left and wanted to get as much out of him as they could. After his wife passed away, I'm sure there was a part- a tiny part- of him where it was healthy to have him go back and be somewhat active, rather than wallow in his grief. But he shouldn't have been signing when he couldn't sign his name. Again, the fans (some of whom are recorded on film complaining and seemingly showing no interest in Stan, out of it, right in front of them) should be just as complicit in that. But Stan needed to raise funds for POW! Entertainment and his apparent debts, so. But my point is, the "good" sigs surely outweight the bad because Stan was sharp and lucid up until around 2016 or so and still pretty spry. You can age overnight seemingly when you lose your spouse of so long.