Welcome CGC to the world of pulps" CGC will be grading them.
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New President of CGC has confirmed in a interview that CGC will grade pulps and will still award the "blue" unrestored label to pulps which are trimmed and take that into account in the overall grading of the issue. As a  pulp collector of the 1970's on this is an earthquake development  our the pulp collecting world. Which quite recently has been stirred up by the Big 3 auction houses now getting into separate auctions with HA leading the way, CC following the leader with a current auction right now, and other will follow. CC or ComicConnect just announced today that will be attending  "pulpfest".

 Watch for new collectors and investors to enter the pulp market now that CGC certified pulps as collectable and gradable.

 Any thoughts?

Edited by Mmehdy
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On 7/20/2021 at 8:12 PM, aardvark88 said:

Sad that trimming is Cgc blue label but how else are we going to avoid S.P.S. (shaken pulp syndrome), and rampant chipping flakes in the slab. :o

I’m fine with a blue label and a little note that says trimmed. It will be tricky, but I’m curious to see how they do it.

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On 7/21/2021 at 8:42 AM, detective35 said:

On the flipside I think we can still blue label trimmed pulp ,with the degree of trimming noted, and Matt can decide how it  impacts the grade.  In my opinion there certainly has to be some type of impact on the grade

Just spit balling...but my name also happens to be Matt and it sounds like you all are waiting for my decision :banana:...

I wonder if there's a hybrid approach between Blue Label and PLOD, where you grade the pulp first without regard to trimming and then note TRIMMED on the actual grade sticker and some notation of degree (somewhat similar to the APPARENT and CONSERVED marks on PLOD slabs). This opens up the full range of grades to allow for more nuance in grading, but still clearly calls out the trimming as a defect without the negative connotations of PLOD.

Assuming trimming is as common as it sounds, the alternative approach where trimming just caps out at a certain grade (call it VG) would force trimmed issues into a very tight grading band that might create issues in itself.

Agreed @detective35 that the masses will ultimately decide relative value. 

Caveat: my bias is as a low/mid grade collector, so may be wildly different than collecting high grade

 

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Is trimming really that common? It sounds like that's the reason to blue label them, but in my experience, I see maybe one trimmed issue for every ~5-10 with overhang in various states of decay. That might just be because the trimmed ones aren't (weren't?) traded as much, or my specific experience, so I'd be curious what the pros think.

I can definitely see the argument for just not wanting to deal with it though. This is always #1 in the list of reasons why CGC will never slab pulps.

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On 7/21/2021 at 11:42 AM, detective35 said:

Tim,

This is one area that has to be handled carefully.  No matter what the reason trimming has to be noted on the label in detail as well as any other type of alteration done.  The consumer/buyer has the right to know.

Of course.  I've always noted it and down-graded accordingly.  I've addressed trimming in my guide.  I've also just posted about what I'm going to call "block trimming" over in the "are pulps the new big thing" thread.

On 7/21/2021 at 11:42 AM, detective35 said:

 However hardcovers are different than Pulps, which are different than Comics.  At no time have I ever heard or read in all my research that companies manufactured, then sent out pulps with overhangs, with the expectations that people would trim them to fit in their library.

I'll clarify.  No, pulp publishers didn't intend that you do anything with a pulp other than buy it from them.  After that, they wouldn't care if you wall-papered your house with it.  Why should they?  I meant to suggest that it wasn't a new idea for pulp collectors to trim their pulps, as trimming and binding of books were not uncommon in the not-so-distant past at the time.

On 7/21/2021 at 11:42 AM, detective35 said:


Yes I have heard that reasons that old-timers trimmed Pulps, so that they better fit in a bookcase, etc. Or that they didn’t do it to make it look better or to deceive.  Guess what, they should have had stored the damn things flat!!

I strongly disagree.  They should have done with their property whatever made them happy.  Most of this trimming was done back when the pulps were purchased off the stands in the 30s-50s.  There was no reason to believe they had any collectibility any more than last week's newspaper did.  There was also no way they could have predicted that a number of these stories would ever be reprinted.  So they preserved them for their own future enjoyment, not with some eye to preserving them for top dollars down the road.  Obviously, if someone does it today, they are likely misinformed about the impact it has.  But back when this was often done, even up through the '60s and '70s... few pulps had any real significant value.

On 7/21/2021 at 11:42 AM, detective35 said:

 That’s like having a Painting or an expensive movie poster and cutting it down to 3/4 of the size and saying that’s OK, because at the time that was the standard size of most frames. I’ve seen that before.

I’ve heard a similar argument with the reason why people taped the inside covers of the overhangs…. just simply  protect the overhangs.  Again It was common place, but still has yo be noted.  I know this is different than the historical context of hardcovers being sent out consumers having to trim the covers etc.

Well, the hardcovers are indeed different, because you would trim it only to have it bound.  Pretty easy to tell a privately bound copy from a publisher's edition (assuming the publisher even printed their own binding, which wasn't always the case).

 

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On 7/21/2021 at 4:09 PM, Bookery said:

Of course.  I've always noted it and down-graded accordingly.  I've addressed trimming in my guide.  I've also just posted about what I'm going to call "block trimming" over in the "are pulps the new big thing" thread.

Absolutely Tim.  

I just want to ,make sure that the trimming is identified on the label and that new collectors know that this is not factory trimmed, it was done at home.

 

On 7/21/2021 at 4:09 PM, Bookery said:

I'll clarify.  No, pulp publishers didn't intend that you do anything with a pulp other than buy it from them.  After that, they wouldn't care if you wall-papered your house with it.  Why should they?  I meant to suggest that it wasn't a new idea for pulp collectors to trim their pulps, as trimming and binding of books were not uncommon in the not-so-distant past at the time.

I agree, trimming has always been done, and in the past, for many different reasons.

On 7/21/2021 at 4:09 PM, Bookery said:

I strongly disagree.  They should have done with their property whatever made them happy.  Most of this trimming was done back when the pulps were purchased off the stands in the 30s-50s.  There was no reason to believe they had any collectibility any more than last week's newspaper did.  There was also no way they could have predicted that a number of these stories would ever be reprinted.  So they preserved them for their own future enjoyment, not with some eye to preserving them for top dollars down the road.  Obviously, if someone does it today, they are likely misinformed about the impact it has.  But back when this was often done, even up through the '60s and '70s... few pulps had any real significant value.

Well, the hardcovers are indeed different, because you would trim it only to have it bound.  Pretty easy to tell a privately bound copy from a publisher's edition (assuming the publisher even printed their own binding, which wasn't always the case).

 

I think we are saying the same thing.  

I agree that collectors in the past could do whatever they wanted to do with their own books.  Hell, how many Mile-High's were given a dot of color touch back in the early 80's because at that time it was not that big of a deal.

I think we are on the same page. I just want to make sure that if we blue label a trimmed pulp, the grade is affected.  If it is a ridiculous trim with a scissor causing major damage, then purple label it.  I just want to make sure that the new collectors coming into the market (especially the comic market where all comics are factory trimmed) know that trimming  is a form of restoration or considered a defect and how this differs from factory trimming.  I agree that slight trimming done well should not be hit as hard with the pulps as comics, but it still needs tp be noted in detail.  Having this clearly stated on the label and the grade affected is important when money comes into play, if not,  you could have people trimming books to enhance them, or create a narrative where trimmed books command the same value as untrimmed. 

 

 

Edited by detective35
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Curious what folks think about Pulps without overhangs which are trimmed? Should they be treated the same/differently as those with overhangs?

Untrimmed, no overhang:

Screenshot_20210721-165113.thumb.png.64a105c1562e6b5de808b6dadd618e10.png

Trimmed (look at story title on bottom right):

Screenshot_20210721-164821.thumb.png.eb67c994c4bd382c39eb10c54a6ea5c9.png

 

 

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