Anybody know the story on the supposed fake Bethlehems? 1 1

[buttock]

Over the years I've seen a rare few books with an EJ Kery stamp on the back where Bethlehem is spelled wrong, i.e. "Behtlehem".  I've been told by several people that these are fake, but I'd like to know more.  The story of the faked Mile Highs is notorious, and everyone loves a good gossip story, so I'm hoping someone can clarify this.  

[jimjum12]

On 10/15/2021 at 10:59 AM, buttock said:

Over the years I've seen a rare few books with an EJ Kery stamp on the back where Bethlehem is spelled wrong, i.e. "Behtlehem".  I've been told by several people that these are fake, but I'd like to know more.  The story of the faked Mile Highs is notorious, and everyone loves a good gossip story, so I'm hoping someone can clarify this.  

Call me a trouble maker, but I would love to have one of the misspelled version. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Flex Mentallo]

[Inaflash]

I’ve never heard of this. I’ll have to look at my copies and see if any have the “variant” stamp.

[DanCooper]

Here is an example of the incorrect stamp spelling of Bethlehem - "BeHTlehem", but I think it is the real deal - a real Bethlehem

Old label. From what I can tell, the "E.J. Kery/Bethlehem" stamp was used on books until about 1958.

I think it is the real deal, but if there was something shady going on, it dates back at least 20+ years.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by DanCooper

[Robot Man]

Here is a nice clean stamp on an authentic copy.

I bought it directly from Joe Rainone myself. We had a talk about it. He related that when he went over to Stanley Pachon's house to pick up the rest, he had to step over a taped outline of where Stanley fell and passed away...

Sorry, I have never heard of fakes of these. 

 

[The Lions Den]

All the confirmed Bethlehem copies I've ever seen had the same stamp, usually somewhere on the back cover. Like the song goes, it makes me wonder...  

[The Lions Den]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:42 PM, Robot Man said:

Here is a nice clean stamp on an authentic copy.

I bought it directly from Joe Rainone myself. We had a talk about it. He related that when he went over to Stanley Pachon's house to pick up the rest, he had to step over a taped outline of where Stanley fell and passed away...

Sorry, I have never heard of fakes of these. 

 

Nice placement...  

[goldsilverap]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:59 AM, buttock said:

Over the years I've seen a rare few books with an EJ Kery stamp on the back where Bethlehem is spelled wrong, i.e. "Behtlehem".  I've been told by several people that these are fake, but I'd like to know more.  The story of the faked Mile Highs is notorious, and everyone loves a good gossip story, so I'm hoping someone can clarify this.  

Don't mean to hijack this thread but, what is the story of the faked Mile Highs? Never heard of the story.

[Spyder!]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:45 PM, goldsilverap said:

Don't mean to hijack this thread but, what is the story of the faked Mile Highs? Never heard of the story.

Same! Do share.

[thehumantorch]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:45 PM, goldsilverap said:

Don't mean to hijack this thread but, what is the story of the faked Mile Highs? Never heard of the story.

I googled Fake Mile High but the results can't be posted in a public forum... 

[Artboy99]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:12 PM, thehumantorch said:

I googled Fake Mile High but the results can't be posted in a public forum... 

I usually fake Mile High in the morning.

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:45 PM, goldsilverap said:

Don't mean to hijack this thread but, what is the story of the faked Mile Highs? Never heard of the story.

The story is that the Dentist put fake Mile High coding on a number of Hawkeye books in order to sell them for Mile High prices. Allegedly, Steve Geppi intervened, ripped the dentist a new *spoon*, and attempted to get the books with fake coding out of circulation. I don't know where the books reside now; maybe Geppi has them. Maybe some of them are still out there.

[Aman619]

On the surface that’s fairly correct.  But the story I’ve been told was a bit more complicated and less black and white of an attempted swindle.  It was between two big old school collectors, exchanging  pedigree copies for their collection. 
 

this was back in the simple olde timey days when just a few guys cared for or coveted or even were aware of of pedigree” comics or collections. 
 

the deal was at an impasse so a few nice copies were marked with Church codes to swap to make the deal conclude. 
 

That’s my memory of what happened. But don’t think I have all the details, 

[MusterMark]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:46 PM, Artboy99 said:

On 10/15/2021 at 6:12 PM, thehumantorch said:

I googled Fake Mile High but the results can't be posted in a public forum... 

I usually fake Mile High in the morning.

I once faked Mile High in an airplane.

[Professor K]

I know nothing other than what is in this discussion and what cgc wrote in the pedigree page about Bethlehem Pedigrees. 18,000 books. Lotta books. lotta years.

I think it's more likely that throughout those years one of their rubber stamps was made wrong by the rubber stamp company and they used it on a few books rather than someone going through the effort to counterfeit them and spelling the main word wrong on the rubber stamp. Other than the misspelled word both stamps look identical I believe.

Does CGC or anybody else actually say they are counterfeits? 

[lou_fine]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:53 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

On 10/15/2021 at 4:45 PM, goldsilverap said:

Don't mean to hijack this thread but, what is the story of the faked Mile Highs? Never heard of the story.

The story is that the Dentist put fake Mile High coding on a number of Hawkeye books in order to sell them for Mile High prices.

 

On 10/15/2021 at 9:23 PM, Aman619 said:

On the surface that’s fairly correct.  But the story I’ve been told was a bit more complicated and less black and white of an attempted swindle.  It was between two big old school collectors, exchanging  pedigree copies for their collection. 

Any idea if it was just limited to the fake Mile High codes only or did he also try to put on some of the fake Larson recall code numbers?  

[Robot Man]

On 10/15/2021 at 11:09 PM, Professor K said:

I know nothing other than what is in this discussion and what cgc wrote in the pedigree page about Bethlehem Pedigrees. 18,000 books. Lotta books. lotta years.

I think it's more likely that throughout those years one of their rubber stamps was made wrong by the rubber stamp company and they used it on a few books rather than someone going through the effort to counterfeit them and spelling the main word wrong on the rubber stamp. Other than the misspelled word both stamps look identical I believe.

Does CGC or anybody else actually say they are counterfeits? 

I tend not to believe it. Who would bother? Not that this is a high demand pedigree. They don’t usually go for large multiples of Guide anyway. 

[buttock]

On 10/16/2021 at 12:09 AM, Professor K said:

I know nothing other than what is in this discussion and what cgc wrote in the pedigree page about Bethlehem Pedigrees. 18,000 books. Lotta books. lotta years.

I think it's more likely that throughout those years one of their rubber stamps was made wrong by the rubber stamp company and they used it on a few books rather than someone going through the effort to counterfeit them and spelling the main word wrong on the rubber stamp. Other than the misspelled word both stamps look identical I believe.

Does CGC or anybody else actually say they are counterfeits? 

Well that's kinda the issue.  The Weird Mysteries 4 in HA has the alleged fake stamp. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/weird-mysteries-4-bethlehem-pedigree-gillmor-1953-cgc-vf-75-off-white-pages/p/7248-36026.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

CGC's pedigree recognition has been questionable at times, especially in the 2nd gen label era.  There was an Action in the last HA signature auction that was labeled the San Francisco copy inaccurately.    

I could see the "different stamp" theory working if there was some consistency, but there are other books from the same era and same publisher with the appropriate stamp.  In fact there are 3 other stamped Bethlehems currently at auction from 1953, all of which have the appropriate stamp, and typically a date stamp on the back cover also, which the WM 4 doesn't have.  Heritage has almost 100 1953 Bethlehems in their archive.  I just went through around 30 of them, and of all of them that have a stamp (most of them) they're all the correct stamp.  

Here's a book from the same month, 4/53, which has the correct stamp.  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/witches-tales-18-bethlehem-pedigree-harvey-1953-cgc-vf-nm-90-off-white-to-white-pages-lee-elias-cover-howard-nostrand/a/14102-17784.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515#

Definitely doesn't smell right.  

[buttock]

On 10/16/2021 at 10:06 AM, Robot Man said:

I tend not to believe it. Who would bother? Not that this is a high demand pedigree. They don’t usually go for large multiples of Guide anyway. 

No, but it's a selling point and probably able to squeeze a slight bump in price.  People have done far more for far less.