Hulk 180 or 181 1st app by the co creator
3 3

113 posts in this topic

Wolverine Co-Creator Settles Incredible Hulk First Appearance Debate (comicbook.com)

This is not a panel with a picture like most hm He does talk and is part of the story at the end it's not just a picture saying in the May issue of Detective Comics 

Action-12-pic-3-inside Batman.jpg

Action 1.jpg

Edited by woowoo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2021 at 11:57 AM, speedcake said:

Seems like "First appearance in cameo" would be a pretty accurate description vs "First full appearance."  Makes sense that 180 was way undervalued for a long time, and is starting to catch up a bit.

The problem with the word "cameo" is that a character/actor has to be known for other things before they can "cameo" in something else.  They can't "cameo" (by definition) if they've never been seen before.

"First brief appearance" is probably the better option, but the debates about what is "brief" would never end.  One panel is brief.  Is two panels?  What if they're on different pages?  What about 5 panels on one page?  What about 3 panels on 3 pages? Etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could get down with something like that. And in this case, like with Venom, it's a clear cut one panel appearance. And both speak I believe, right?  more panels than that and ya it can quickly become a gray area. Where would be the line between a brief first appearance/cameo and a full appearance? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2021 at 6:04 PM, speedcake said:

I could get down with something like that. And in this case, like with Venom, it's a clear cut one panel appearance. And both speak I believe, right?  more panels than that and ya it can quickly become a gray area. Where would be the line between a brief first appearance/cameo and a full appearance? 

Hulk #180 has the reference to Weapon X on page 3, then on the final page, Wolverine speaks in a panel before he appears in the final panel and names himself.  (The narration also reveals he is Weapon X)

It's brief, but it's not "just a one-inch panel, face only" brief like Darkseid.

Edited by valiantman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2021 at 3:52 PM, valiantman said:

The problem with the word "cameo" is that a character/actor has to be known for other things before they can "cameo" in something else.  They can't "cameo" (by definition) if they've never been seen before.

"First brief appearance" is probably the better option, but the debates about what is "brief" would never end.  One panel is brief.  Is two panels?  What if they're on different pages?  What about 5 panels on one page?  What about 3 panels on 3 pages? Etc.

I agree on the "cameo" semantic point.

Advertisement/Preview: "1st Wolverine In Advertisement/Preview"

One panel: "1st Wolverine Introduction In Story"... or "1st Wolverine Brief Appearance"

More than one panel: "1st Wolverine Appearance In Story"... or "1st Wolverine Full Appearance"

Then we get into the "is a shadow an appearance?" or "is just saying the name an introduction?"

 

/Bronze-Age stuff

 

Edited by jcjames
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2021 at 6:45 PM, jcjames said:

Advertisement/Preview: "1st Wolverine In Advertisement/Preview"

One panel: "1st Wolverine Introduction In Story"

More than one panel: "1st Wolverine Appearance In Story"

Three different things (or more, if the advertisement/preview is in multiple books) all labeled "1st" is silly, though.

It reminds me of a co-worker who is always telling stories that begin with "my best friend ..." and so far there have been about 6 different people in those stories.   How many are "best"? 

How many are "1st"? lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2021 at 4:51 PM, valiantman said:

Three different things (or more, if the advertisement/preview is in multiple books) all labeled "1st" is silly, though.

It reminds me of a co-worker who is always telling stories that begin with "my best friend ..." and so far there have been about 6 different people in those stories.   How many are "best"? 

How many are "1st"? lol

"Ties with YadaYada #3, Predates BlahBlah #4, 1st Cover But Not In Story"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2021 at 3:52 PM, valiantman said:

The problem with the word "cameo" is that a character/actor has to be known for other things before they can "cameo" in something else.  They can't "cameo" (by definition) if they've never been seen before.

"First brief appearance" is probably the better option, but the debates about what is "brief" would never end.  One panel is brief.  Is two panels?  What if they're on different pages?  What about 5 panels on one page?  What about 3 panels on 3 pages? Etc.

No.  

The designation of "cameo" is clearly an after the fact term applied, given that he is in fact now known and that is a perfectly apt description.  

And this guy hasn't said anything new that everybody hasn't already known since forever.  

-J.

Edited by Jaydogrules
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2021 at 10:00 PM, Jaydogrules said:

No.  

The designation of "cameo" is clearly an after the fact term applied, given that he is in fact now known and that is a perfectly apt description.  

You can't apply "cameo" after-the-fact.  That's against the definition of "cameo".

Proof:

Kurt Russell "boy who kicked Elvis" has 99 Google results.

Kurt Russell "boy who kicked Elvis" cameo has 0 Google results.

You lose, 99 to 0. ^^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/3/2021 at 8:26 AM, valiantman said:

You can't apply "cameo" after-the-fact.  That's against the definition of "cameo".

Proof:

Kurt Russell "boy who kicked Elvis" has 99 Google results.

Kurt Russell "boy who kicked Elvis" cameo has 0 Google results.

You lose, 99 to 0. ^^

🙄 This is why semantic arguments are always so weak.  

I didn't say that he cameo'd after the fact.  I said his non -substantive one panel teaser appearance at the end of hulk 180 is properly called a cameo because he is well known NOW.

-J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/3/2021 at 10:39 AM, Jaydogrules said:

🙄 This is why semantic arguments are always so weak.  

I didn't say that he cameo'd after the fact.  I said his non -substantive one panel teaser appearance at the end of hulk 180 is properly called a cameo because he is well known NOW.

-J.

Yes, I understood what you said, and you still haven't understood why you're wrong.

The "non-substantive one panel teaser" (as you call it) can't be a cameo, then, now, or anytime in the future, because the meaning of a cameo is 

cam·e·o
/ˈkamēˌō/
noun
1a small character part in a play or movie, played by a distinguished actor or a celebrity.
 
No person or character is ever "distinguished" at the time they first appear.  Therefore, they can never be a "cameo" in their first appearance.
"Boy who kicked Elvis" was played by Kurt Russell when he was 10 years old.  It wasn't a "cameo" of Kurt Russell (back then) because no one knew who Kurt Russell was. 
People know Kurt Russell now, but his first appearance as a 10-year-old is still not a cameo (today or ever in the future) because he wasn't distinguished at the time of the role.
 
Cameo is, by definition, not applicable to first appearances of any character... ever.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/3/2021 at 9:09 AM, valiantman said:

Yes, I understood what you said, and you still haven't understood why you're wrong.

The "non-substantive one panel teaser" (as you call it) can't be a cameo, then, now, or anytime in the future, because the meaning of a cameo is 

cam·e·o
/ˈkamēˌō/
noun
1a small character part in a play or movie, played by a distinguished actor or a celebrity.
 
No person or character is ever "distinguished" at the time they first appear.  Therefore, they can never be a "cameo" in their first appearance.
"Boy who kicked Elvis" was played by Kurt Russell when he was 10 years old.  It wasn't a "cameo" of Kurt Russell (back then) because no one knew who Kurt Russell was. 
People know Kurt Russell now, but his first appearance as a 10-year-old is still not a cameo (today or ever in the future) because he wasn't distinguished at the time of the role.
 
Cameo is, by definition, not applicable to first appearances of any character... ever.

Nope.  You're still not getting it.  

Even using your weak semantic argument, one could say that when the non-substantive, one panel appearance at the end of 180 occurred it wasn't a "cameo" THEN.

But he is known NOW, and the one panel appearance at the end of 180 is just as non-substantive as it ever was, except now he is known, therefore, "cameo".  (thumbsu

And no, none of this helps or makes your copies of 180 any cooler, more important or more valuable.  It is still the same wendigo story with the terrible cover that it has always been.  Lol

-J.

Edited by Jaydogrules
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/3/2021 at 12:33 PM, Jaydogrules said:

non-substantive

... no bearing on the definition of cameo.

On 11/3/2021 at 12:33 PM, Jaydogrules said:

more important or more valuable

.... no bearing on the definition of cameo.

These are both examples of you attempting to interject your "feelings" into a discussion as fact by spinning extraneous data as relevant. I'll stand behind you every time when you're right, this isn't one of those times. It's hard to turn "wrong" around once it leaves the station. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

Edited by jimjum12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
3 3