How much do the pedigree stories matter to you? 1 1

[lou_fine]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:20 PM, Robot Man said:

Some like Allentown, Hawkeye, Denver and a few others, I’ve pretty much given up on.

I can certainly understand Allentown and Denver since those are the smallest pedigrees in terms of quantity with only 135  and 153 extant books respectively.  

With the Hawkeye's, I would have thought it to be a lot easier since there's supposed to be 1,500 books out there, although I guess the fact that there's no identifiable markings on the books from this pedigree makes it easy for some of them to have gotten "lost" over time and hence lose their pedigree status.  

[Straw-Man]

it's fun when there is a cross-purposing as regards a particular get; tho' i don't any longer collect "all raboy covers," [only jr. covers now...], i once did, so it was great when this hawkeye representative just happened to hit another focus!

[Robot Man]

On 2/8/2022 at 1:20 PM, sfcityduck said:

Edgar Church's story doesn't impress me at all - it is sort of depressing.  But the story of how Chuck essentially re-invented the comic market and changed collecting forever is fascinating.  Owning a MH is owning a piece of comic collecting history.

True. Edgar Church was a rather peculiar man. Obviously, obsessive and compulsive. Thank goodness he was though. I would have loved talking to him. 

Chuck’s story is quite different though. A guy that had the good fortune and good sense to turn that good fortune into a life changing experience.

I remember when I first saw box fulls of these books. Like a time capsule. The colors, gloss, smell. These books redefined what the word meant at the time. No other pedigree will ever top it. 

[Tri-Color Brian]

Back stories behind pedigrees are important if there is enough information to confirm they are true.  If the story is just vague, then I'm not interested.  I think for many of us the joy of owning a pedigree book is knowing we have a little piece of someone's history, and we know the name of the person and their story.  High grade books can be found elsewhere, so I think the story is the real lure. 

[Tri-Color Brian]

On 2/9/2022 at 8:50 AM, Robot Man said:

Edgar Church was a rather peculiar man. Obviously, obsessive and compulsive. I would have loved talking to him. 

 

He probably would have told you to get off his lawn...

[sfcityduck]

On 2/9/2022 at 9:17 AM, Tri-ColorBrian said:

Back stories behind pedigrees are important if there is enough information to confirm they are true.  If the story is just vague, then I'm not interested.  I think for many of us the joy of owning a pedigree book is knowing we have a little piece of someone's history, and we know the name of the person and their story.  High grade books can be found elsewhere, so I think the story is the real lure. 

To me, the original function of the pedigree concept was just a pre-internet way of giving the buyer comfort that the quality of the book was as represented.  I'm not sure that there is any value to a pedigree designation any more other than marketing hype and back story.  The original notion that led to "pedigree" becoming a "thing" was that if a collector had seen some MH books or knew others who had, the collector would have an idea as to what the quality of other MH books might be.  It was a convenient reference and source of comfort. 

But over time that has changed, especially since CGC has removed most of the guess work from grading and PQ, and new pedigrees are being sold sight unseen by Heritage (e.g. they don't have a reputation for quality yet, weren't deemed a pedigree by consensus of collectors, and buyers won't get any comfort from prior experience with the ped).  As many collectors have taken an interest in more than just the quality of the books, and the need for a "pedigree" designation is largely gone (other than for marketing), the back story has become a big part of the appeal of a ped designation.  

Edited February 9, 2022 by sfcityduck

[Tri-Color Brian]

On 2/9/2022 at 10:55 AM, sfcityduck said:

To me, the original function of the pedigree label was just a pre-internet way of giving the buyer that the quality of the book was as represented.  I'm not sure that there is any value to a pedigree designation any more other than marketing hype and back story.  The original notion that led to "pedigree" becoming a "thing" was that if a collector had seen some MH books or knew others who had, the collector would have an idea as to what the quality of other MH books might be.  It was a convenient reference and source of comfort. 

But over time that has changed, especially since CGC has removed most of the guess work from grading and PQ, and new pedigrees are being sold sight unseen by Heritage (e.g. they don't have a rep yet and buyers won't get any comfort from prior experience with the ped).  As many collectors have taken an interest in more than just the quality of the books, and the need for a "pedigree" designation is largely gone (other than for marketing), the back story has become a big part of the appeal of a ped designation.  

I agree with all of this, but when I became aware of pedigrees in the early 90s it was the back story that intrigued me...as well as the investment potential.

[zosocane]

I think the same question arises with respect to non-pedigree celebrity OO or collector notations.  Will you pay extra for a Nick Cage copy?  I understand Elvis Presley's attic at Graceland still has his childhood comic books, presumably including Captain Marvel Jr.  What if the "Elvis Presley" collection of low- to-mid-grade Jrs came to market?  

 

[sfcityduck]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:42 AM, zosocane said:

I think the same question arises with respect to non-pedigree celebrity OO or collector notations.  Will you pay extra for a Nick Cage copy?  I understand Elvis Presley's attic at Graceland still has his childhood comic books, presumably including Captain Marvel Jr.  What if the "Elvis Presley" collection of low- to-mid-grade Jrs came to market?  

 

Through the roof.  Intriguing notion given the history of the Cage books.

[Robot Man]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:44 AM, sfcityduck said:

Through the roof.  Intriguing notion given the history of the Cage books.

I bought a few Jerry Garcia collection ECs. Was very happy to get some. Can’t imagine what Elvis’s books would go for. 

[waaaghboss]

On 2/8/2022 at 2:51 PM, path4play said:

Short story.  My old man had a big stash of GA comic books. I pillaged them and sold them off and went to college (no, not paid for college with the funds, sold them off, and went to college - two very separate events).

I started collecting again 12 years ago.

I love stamps, signatures, and markings on covers.  I like the back story.  Maybe its just me, but province >= grade @$.  I will pay premium for pedigree to an extent - but I also like collecting those that "never made it" to pedigree status for mostly province <= grade @$.  Like "Betty & Junior."  For me anyway, this is cooler and more interesting than without the sigs and vastly overcomes the grade, especially when cheaper.  Let's call it another dimension.  I can ponder the artist, story, publisher, grade, title/series, demand, etc.,... and ALSO who the heck were  "Betty & Junior?"  Anyone have another  "Betty & Junior" - book?  Would love to buy it.

 

I'm on this boat.  Not a pedigree, but any 1930s book stamped with Irene Claxton immediately gets my attention. 

 

[Robot Man]

Any book with "Paul" on the cover get's my attention...

[Cat-Man_America]

I'm blown away by every impeccably scribed pedigree story in Matt's book.  

[jimbo_7071]

Even though I find some of the pedigrees interesting, I wouldn't willingly pay more for a book because of the story. I might pay more accidentally if the underbidder bid me up because of the story, but the story wouldn't affect my personal maximum. At the end of the day, comics are mass-produced items. My goal is to find the nicest, freshest copy I can—and I value page quality far more than grade—pedigree or non-pedigree.

[Robot Man]

I have always been a buyer of “opportunity”. I collect primarily GA. I long ago realized that if I want a rare book I had better buy it when I had the chance or possibly never have it at all.

My collection is all over the place grade wise. From coverless/incomplete to Church books. I buy what I like at the moment and upgrade later if I can or want to. I am more a fan of the book it’self rather than the grade.

I understand page quality and appreciate white pages but have had no problems owning books with lessor color quality as long as they aren’t brittle or fragile.

I hate books with dull or faded covers. I have even down graded technically high grade books to get better color. Fiction House comes to mind.

I just love vintage comics and can live with the down sides just to be able to own them…

[Obrie2tm]

Certain pedigrees I would absolutely pay beyond FMV to obtain. I love the back stories and enjoy when a book has more history to it beyond the book itself. This holds for what I would consider as sub-pedigree books such as Court copies and the post-WWII occupied Germany marked books that I only just became aware of and was lucky enough to purchase a copy of. They are marked 15c US Zone...just fantastic history to hold. But then again, I also collect civil war military items and have hunted for historical antiques my whole life. 

[Pickie]

I have only this and the pedigree mattered. Sadly, there is not much of a back story to this pedigree (no documentation of the original contents, then scattered)? 

The ped designation mattered to me nonetheless, because I Iike the difference to the top ped (Gaines File): These books from a collector had actually been distributed! (Gaines' books never left the publisher's archive/vault.) 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Pickie

[sfcityduck]

On 2/11/2022 at 4:50 PM, Obrie2tm said:

Certain pedigrees I would absolutely pay beyond FMV to obtain. I love the back stories and enjoy when a book has more history to it beyond the book itself. This holds for what I would consider as sub-pedigree books such as Court copies and the post-WWII occupied Germany marked books that I only just became aware of and was lucky enough to purchase a copy of. They are marked 15c US Zone...just fantastic history to hold. But then again, I also collect civil war military items and have hunted for historical antiques my whole life. 

 

Great info on the occupied Germany books!  

For me, the court copies, ashcans, and certain one off books coming from industry sources such as the pay copies and the WW 1 solicitation copy are as good or better than the pedigrees. 

[Robot Man]

On 2/11/2022 at 4:50 PM, Obrie2tm said:

Certain pedigrees I would absolutely pay beyond FMV to obtain. I love the back stories and enjoy when a book has more history to it beyond the book itself. This holds for what I would consider as sub-pedigree books such as Court copies and the post-WWII occupied Germany marked books that I only just became aware of and was lucky enough to purchase a copy of. They are marked 15c US Zone...just fantastic history to hold. But then again, I also collect civil war military items and have hunted for historical antiques my whole life. 

Would these occupied Germany books ones that were sold on military PX bases or regular newsstands to the public? I have never seen any of these. 

[Obrie2tm]

On 2/12/2022 at 11:14 AM, Robot Man said:

Would these occupied Germany books ones that were sold on military PX bases or regular newsstands to the public? I have never seen any of these. 

Great question and I honestly am not sure. I'm trying to track down more information on this myself. I only just learned about this through another thread on here from a few years ago after spotting the copy I picked up and trying to learn more about the stamp. My guess would be military PX bases, but would love to hear from anyone else that would know more of the history behind this. Don't seem to be very common at all.