Moondog's Ashcan Odyssey - Part 2 3 3

[Moondog]

I was convinced that ashcans, as historically important as they were, would never attain the level of respect they deserved unless they were listed in Overstreet.  Real comic books are listed in Overstreet.  Ashcans are real comics.  They may not have been sold on a newsstand, but there was no question in my mind (and many others) that they were comic books. 

Enter Tom Gordon, Overstreet managing editor, comic book historian and long-time advocate for ashcans.  He was as determined as I was that they needed to be listed in the Guide.  Through Tom's efforts Bob finally listed ashcans in the 2006 edition - a full 20 years after first reporting on my initial purchase.

The 1998 publication Comics Between the Panels published by Dark Horse ran a very cool feature on my ashcans.  This book is an overlooked gem. 

Wizard jumped on the ashcan band wagon in 2002 when they ran a nice piece on my collection.  The photo of Steve and me is one of my favorites.

A couple of years after Bob finally listed ashcans, JC Vaughn asked me to do a definitive article for the Guide.  Mark Zaid and I co-authored the piece.  We had a lot of fun with it.

The 2010 uber tome - 75 Years of DC Comics by Paul Levitz had a nice section on ashcans.  Paul was gracious to inscribe my copy. 

Part 3 coming up.

 

[waaaghboss]

Interesting about marvel and others not having ashcans, or at least none that have been seen.  Since DC filed 1 copy each at the library of congress, would there still be any record of ashcans from other publishers there somehow?

[adamstrange]

On 2/26/2022 at 12:47 AM, Moondog said:

Comics Between the Panels published by Dark Horse  This book is an overlooked gem. 

+1

[Moondog]

On 2/26/2022 at 12:49 AM, waaaghboss said:

Interesting about marvel and others not having ashcans, or at least none that have been seen.  Since DC filed 1 copy each at the library of congress, would there still be any record of ashcans from other publishers there somehow?

There is a Hit (Quality) ashcan.  Champion Comics.  A few other obscure publishers too, but Timely just sent in the logo with their trademark registration.  I had the Millie The Model registration which I sold to Mark.  I believe he has the Human Torch too.

[Bronty]

On 2/26/2022 at 12:47 AM, Moondog said:

I was convinced that ashcans, as historically important as they were, would never attain the level of respect they deserved unless they were listed in Overstreet.  Real comic books are listed in Overstreet.  Ashcans are real comics.  They may not have been sold on a newsstand, but there was no question in my mind (and many others) that they were comic books. 

Enter Tom Gordon, Overstreet managing editor, comic book historian and long-time advocate for ashcans.  He was as determined as I was that they needed to be listed in the Guide.  Through Tom's efforts Bob finally listed ashcans in the 2006 edition - a full 20 years after first reporting on my initial purchase.

The 1998 publication Comics Between the Panels published by Dark Horse ran a very cool feature on my ashcans.  This book is an overlooked gem. 

Wizard jumped on the ashcan band wagon in 2002 when they ran a nice piece on my collection.  The photo of Steve and me is one of my favorites.

A couple of years after Bob finally listed ashcans, JC Vaughn asked me to do a definitive article for the Guide.  Mark Zaid and I co-authored the piece.  We had a lot of fun with it.

The 2010 uber tome - 75 Years of DC Comics by Paul Levitz had a nice section on ashcans.  Paul was gracious to inscribe my copy. 

Part 3 coming up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Moondog is it known what artwork was in Harrison's files before the flood?

[Moondog]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:06 PM, Bronty said:

@Moondog is it known what artwork was in Harrison's files before the flood?

The only art that was offered to me was a Frazetta White Indian complete story.

[Bronty]

On 2/26/2022 at 5:41 PM, Moondog said:

The only art that was offered to me was a Frazetta White Indian complete story.

The article page that I quoted above mentioned all of Harrison's artwork perishing in a flood, with the ashcans surviving the flood and making it therefore to Joe Desris and then eventually to you.    See the sentence or two right above the Wonder Woman ashcan.   So, what I'm wondering is, do you know what artwork Harrison lost before anything was offered to you?

Edited February 26, 2022 by Bronty

[tth2]

On 2/27/2022 at 6:55 AM, Bronty said:

So, what I'm wondering is, do you know what artwork Harrison lost before anything was offered to you?

[Moondog]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:55 PM, Bronty said:

The article page that I quoted above mentioned all of Harrison's artwork perishing in a flood, with the ashcans surviving the flood and making it therefore to Joe Desris and then eventually to you.    See the sentence or two right above the Wonder Woman ashcan.   So, what I'm wondering is, do you know what artwork Harrison lost before anything was offered to you?

As I said, the only art I was offered was the White Indian story.  I was not aware of any other art.

[KCOComics]

 

Thank you for posting this!  It's very cool to see all the work you put into learning about Ashcans and informing collectors about them.

It's sad that you are selling, but I do wish you luck! 

[TomG]

As Gary@Moondog mentioned I was able to assist in seeing that Golden Age Ashcans finally received their due in The Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide. It was a process which at the time took a number of conversations with Bob over several years for me. As a collector who grew up seeing Gary's Ashcan ads I always had an appreciation for these unique comics that were amazing historical artifacts. I finally approached Ashcans to the closest example I personally knew of in another major hobby which has existed since the 14th century, which was coins. In coin collecting there are what is known as Pattern coins, these are experimental pieces struck to test a new design or material. Pattern coins for a variety of reasons were not issued and these in many ways they were similar to Ashcan comics. Pattern Coins are listed in The Office Red Book of Coins. Give the rarity and uniqueness of Pattern Coins it was comparable to price them in the same manner as Pattern coins which was to not price them, but instead note reported sales. 

 The rest as they say is history...

[Moondog]

On 2/27/2022 at 3:48 PM, TomG said:

 

As Gary@Moondog mentioned I was able to assist in seeing that Golden Age Ashcans finally received their due in The Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide. It was a process which at the time took a number of conversations with Bob over several years for me. As a collector who grew up seeing Gary's Ashcan ads I always had an appreciation for these unique comics that were amazing historical artifacts. I finally approached Ashcans to the closest example I personally knew of in another major hobby which has existed since the 14th century, which was coins. In coin collecting there are what is known as Pattern coins, these are experimental pieces struck to test a new design or material. Pattern coins for a variety of reasons were not issued and these in many ways they were similar to Ashcan comics. Pattern Coins are listed in The Office Red Book of Coins. Give the rarity and uniqueness of Pattern Coins it was comparable to price them in the same manner as Pattern coins which was to not price them, but instead note reported sales. 

 The rest as they say is history...

Thanks again, Tom!

 

[Moondog]

On 2/27/2022 at 5:16 PM, VG+ said:

Superboy?

I think this photo was taken in 2003.  I asked Steve to slab these 3 favorites.  The Superboy didn't make the cut then. 

[Yorick]

Fascinating that Double Action 2 is being labeled an Ashcan.  Thank you!

[lou_fine]

And yet in the Overstreet Guide, it clearly states that Double Action Comics 2 is NOT an ashcan.  

I guess that earlier article by Gary might be a bit out-of-date since it was written back in the 90's and states only 3 known copies of Double Action 2 and no verified copy of a Double Action 1.  In the Overstreet Guide, it states that there are now 7 known copies of Double Action 2, with 4 of them in high grade.  In addition, it also states that Double Action 1 exists as an ashcan copy.  

[Moondog]

On 3/1/2022 at 2:23 PM, lou_fine said:

And yet in the Overstreet Guide, it clearly states that Double Action Comics 2 is NOT an ashcan.  

I guess that earlier article by Gary might be a bit out-of-date since it was written back in the 90's and states only 3 known copies of Double Action 2 and no verified copy of a Double Action 1.  In the Overstreet Guide, it states that there are now 7 known copies of Double Action 2, with 4 of them in high grade.  In addition, it also states that Double Action 1 exists as an ashcan copy.  

I am skeptical about the DA 1.  Especially since it wasn’t given a grade.  
 

In my mind there is no question that DA 2 is an ashcan because I purchased a cover in the same batch of ashcans as the Action Comics ashcan.  The cover is a reprint as are the insides.  Could some have been sold on the newsstand outside DCs offices as it’s been rumored - sure - but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t an ashcan.  I don’t know if there was a registration filed for the title with the USPO, but this book was created for a reason, and the most logical conclusion is it’s an ashcan.