Contributors to the slow turn around times at CGC 7 7

[Colin Nash]

I have seen and heard a lot about the slow turn around times at CGC and for many of us, its not how things used to be.

CGC clearly have too much work post Covid and taking on more people in such a specialised and customer sensitive business can't be easy. I would however, say that there are certain people out there who don't help the situation at all by sending in 20, 30, 50, comics at a time and then, complain about the quality of service and grades they get.

Just browse Youtube and you will see them sitting next to huge piles of their newly returned submissions.

eg. Comic Book Investments

      Mint Hunter Comics

If you scale this up across the market, no wonder it takes so long for CGC to process the submissions. People such as these, are hogging the process and clogging the CGC system to the detrement of other users.

My answer to them is, be more responsible and stop submitting 100's of comics to CGC. You just might bring about a better and quicker service for everyone ?

Edited March 4, 2022 by Colin Nash

[NewWorldOrder]

Did you write this in August 2020 and just forget to hit the submit button? 

Edited March 3, 2022 by NewWorldOrder

[Lightning55]

The seafood shack in the next town just opened for the season.  It was mobbed, super long wait in line.  If all those people could have just stayed hungry for a few more months, the service would have been quicker.

[mcribar]

I'm sure it's been said already (I'm not a regular here) but rather than asking people to reduce their submissions, how about CGC suspending submissions until they can provide a more reasonable turnaround time.  And yes, I understand that will never happen since it would hurt their bottom line but I really don't see another solution.  I submitted 12 books (all golden age) last month (not express/fast track) and it looks like I will have to wait 9 months or so before they are certified  However, I'm not a flipper so I'm not worried about the bubble busting before I get my books back.  CGC is benefiting from the bubble as much as the flippers which is what the free market is all about.  I started collecting in 1976 and have seen a lot in this business  This current bubble is definitely one for the records.  I've sold 70% of my collection over the last 18 months at a local auction house.  Hard to believe what people are paying right now but I'll certainly take it!

[Gaard]

When people basically say, "You stop doing what you like, so that I can do what I like", it confuses me. It just seems wrong.

[shadroch]

If EVERYONE stopped buying CGC slabs immediately, demand will go down and people would stop sending in hundreds at a time. In a few years, TATs would be under control and the world would ,once more, be a safe place for musical comedy

[theCapraAegagrus]

wot

[eastriver400]

I understand the whole brand loyalty thing… but once you start victim blaming the customers….… you are probably suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. 

[Stefan_W]

People are practical, and many are sending in a lot of books right now because it benefits them to do so. As long as the math works people will keep doing what they do, and more power to them. 

The two things that would make a substantial impact on the number of books being sent in are: 1) a market dip where there is an overall price correction, and 2) CGC raising grading prices to a point where it no longer makes sense to send in many comics (e.g., doubling or tripling their current pricing across the board). 

 

[shadroch]

If you eliminate the competitition, then you can eliminate customer service. 

CGC has it backwards.

[mattn792]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:03 PM, mcribar said:

I'm sure it's been said already (I'm not a regular here) but rather than asking people to reduce their submissions, how about CGC suspending submissions until they can provide a more reasonable turnaround time.  And yes, I understand that will never happen since it would hurt their bottom line but I really don't see another solution.  I submitted 12 books (all golden age) last month (not express/fast track) and it looks like I will have to wait 9 months or so before they are certified  However, I'm not a flipper so I'm not worried about the bubble busting before I get my books back.  CGC is benefiting from the bubble as much as the flippers which is what the free market is all about.  I started collecting in 1976 and have seen a lot in this business  This current bubble is definitely one for the records.  I've sold 70% of my collection over the last 18 months at a local auction house.  Hard to believe what people are paying right now but I'll certainly take it!

Why do people bother to keep proposing this?  Let's put aside the fact that no business with any sense that is swimming in customers is going to take measures to drastically reduce their customer base, even temporarily.

Instead, look at the financial aspect -- CGC gets paid UP FRONT.  So those book that are waiting 9+ months to be graded?  CGC has your money while your books sit and wait; you basically gave them an interest free loan until services are finally rendered.  That's grading, handling, shipping, and pressing fees (if applicable), sitting in the CGC bank account.

Estimated TATs are available right here -- CGC Services & Fees | CGC (cgccomics.com)

And yet the submission deluge continues, unabated.

"Walkthrough" is at 10 days.  Yes, walkthrough is at 10 days.  Any book with declared FMV over $3000 falls into this tier.  And the comic market went mental over the past 18 months, so $3000 isn't exactly a high bar to cross any longer.  

It all equals fat $tack$, and no one would voluntarily muck that up.

[SeniorSurfer]

[lostboys]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:03 PM, mcribar said:

I'm sure it's been said already (I'm not a regular here) but rather than asking people to reduce their submissions, how about CGC suspending submissions until they can provide a more reasonable turnaround time.  And yes, I understand that will never happen since it would hurt their bottom line but I really don't see another solution.  I submitted 12 books (all golden age) last month (not express/fast track) and it looks like I will have to wait 9 months or so before they are certified  However, I'm not a flipper so I'm not worried about the bubble busting before I get my books back.  CGC is benefiting from the bubble as much as the flippers which is what the free market is all about.  I started collecting in 1976 and have seen a lot in this business  This current bubble is definitely one for the records.  I've sold 70% of my collection over the last 18 months at a local auction house.  Hard to believe what people are paying right now but I'll certainly take it!

"...but I'll certainly take it!"

 

You may also regret it in a few years when you look back.

[Domo Arigato]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:31 AM, mattn792 said:

On 3/3/2022 at 6:03 PM, mcribar said:

I'm sure it's been said already (I'm not a regular here) but rather than asking people to reduce their submissions, how about CGC suspending submissions until they can provide a more reasonable turnaround time. 

Why do people bother to keep proposing this?  Let's put aside the fact that no business with any sense that is swimming in customers is going to take measures to drastically reduce their customer base, even temporarily.

Instead, look at the financial aspect -- CGC gets paid UP FRONT.  So those book that are waiting 9+ months to be graded?  CGC has your money while your books sit and wait; you basically gave them an interest free loan until services are finally rendered.  That's grading, handling, shipping, and pressing fees (if applicable), sitting in the CGC bank account.

Estimated TATs are available right here -- CGC Services & Fees | CGC (cgccomics.com)

And yet the submission deluge continues, unabated.

"Walkthrough" is at 10 days.  Yes, walkthrough is at 10 days.  Any book with declared FMV over $3000 falls into this tier.  And the comic market went mental over the past 18 months, so $3000 isn't exactly a high bar to cross any longer.  

It all equals fat $tack$, and no one would voluntarily muck that up.

PSA (the sports collectible industry's largest grading service) and Beckett (the second-largest card-grading company) both suspended their services last year in order to get control over their turn around times.  I believe PSA completely suspended all submissions, and Beckett shut down their Economy, Standard, and Express tiers, and were only accepting submissions at their Premium tier.

Also, both WATA and VGA currently have several of their tiers for video game grading suspended in order to get things under control as well.  WATA has closed its Select tier for both sealed and Complete-In-Box (open) games....as well as its Turbo tier for C.I.B. games only.  VGA has closed both its Economy and Express tiers.....and is accepting submissions only under their Premium and Archival tiers.

 

[mattn792]

On 3/4/2022 at 10:31 AM, Domo Arigato said:

PSA (the sports collectible industry's largest grading service) and Beckett (the second-largest card-grading company) both suspended their services last year in order to get control over their turn around times.  I believe PSA completely suspended all submissions, and Beckett shut down their Economy, Standard, and Express tiers, and were only accepting submissions at their Premium tier.

Also, both WATA and VGA currently have several of their tiers for video game grading suspended in order to get things under control as well.  WATA has closed its Select tier for both sealed and Complete-In-Box (open) games....as well as its Turbo tier for C.I.B. games only.  VGA has closed both its Economy and Express tiers.....and is accepting submissions only under their Premium and Archival tiers.

 

On the surface, I'd argue it was a dumb move to turn away business.

But on the flip side - was any of this driven by things like storage capacity concerns or desire to limit overall liability?  

[darkstar]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:31 AM, mattn792 said:

Why do people bother to keep proposing this?  Let's put aside the fact that no business with any sense that is swimming in customers is going to take measures to drastically reduce their customer base, even temporarily.

 

PSA and BGS both suspended submissions, so...

[Domo Arigato]

On 3/4/2022 at 10:46 AM, mattn792 said:

On the surface, I'd argue it was a dumb move to turn away business.

But on the flip side - was any of this driven by things like storage capacity concerns or desire to limit overall liability?  

Not from what I've read (although it does appear that PSA, like Beckett, just shut down most of their tiers).  It appears they did it simply because they realized they needed to do it in order to serve their customers properly.  Perhaps they were thinking of the bigger picture and the long game.....not maximizing quick profits.

Here are some excerpts from an article last year regarding PSA suspending services.  

PSA President Steve Sloan said the company’s volume of orders in March has severely impacted PSA’s ability to service the hobby.

“Given our growing backlog, it would be disingenuous for us to continue to accept submissions for cards that we will be unable to process in the foreseeable future,” Sloan said in a letter on the PSA website. “It’s an unpleasant conclusion, especially after the March 1 price increase, but it is necessary to properly serve the customers who have already submitted to PSA.”

PSA is temporarily suspending its Value, Regular and Express services. Sloan said the move would allow PSA to “fully unbox and receive the recent surge of orders and focus on our most impacted service lines.”

PSA will use a tiered approach to resuming those services, with a goal of bringing back all services by July 1. Collectors Club members will have their memberships automatically extended to ensure they receive their full 12 months of benefits.

PSA has expanded its operation this year to accommodate the growing number of submissions, adding more than 120,000 square feet to its facilities and hiring more than 300 new employees in the last year. The company continues to hire more employees and is discussing the possibility of adding new grading locations throughout the country.

“This announcement puts our existing customers first,” Sloan wrote to customers. “You have been extremely patient in waiting for your cards. This change will help get your cards back faster while maintaining the quality and accuracy you expect from PSA. We are working around the clock for you, and we appreciate your support as we grow our capacity.”

Edited March 4, 2022 by Domo Arigato

[mattn792]

Maybe this an overly greedy capitalist viewpoint, but I look at it like this - they aren't hiding anything, CGC is pretty forthright that TATs are _ucked up now and for the foreseeable future.  And it's also a topic that is widely discussed on these very boards.  But multi-month TATs or no, people keep sending their books.  Even with two known competitors in the marketplace, albeit with one of them being more punchline than competitor.  So unless and until customers change their habits en masse, I doubt CGC leadership will see any reason to change course.  In fact, I'd interpret the constant demand as a sign that the short and long games are equally healthy right now because customers are willing to wait nearly a year to get their 9.2 copies of Amazing Spider-Man 379 back (shout out to @BITCOINSWAMI).

I actually equate it a bit to the MMA landscape.  The UFC is pretty much the undisputed leader, but the organization's fighter pay structure is a constant source of passionate argument.  And I agree that most of the roster is underpaid and getting screwed by the current advertising and licensing structure.  But guys and gals from regional scenes around the world are constantly beating down the door to get into the big time.  And of the current champions, a significant number of them started as relatively unheralded undercard fighters.  The churn is producing champions.  So as long as that is happening, and none of their competitors can mount a meaningful challenge to their brand (which they haven't been able to so far), the UFC's motivation for changing the pay scale will remain minimal.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:52 AM, Gaard said:

When people basically say, "You stop doing what you like, so that I can do what I like", it confuses me. It just seems wrong.

The #1 problem for TaT's right now is us.  If 50% of the people would stop submitting their complete trash real books would get graded in a proper time frame. 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by NewWorldOrder

[Domo Arigato]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:38 AM, mattn792 said:

Maybe this an overly greedy capitalist viewpoint, but I look at it like this - they aren't hiding anything, CGC is pretty forthright that TATs are _ucked up now and for the foreseeable future.  And it's also a topic that is widely discussed on these very boards.  But multi-month TATs or no, people keep sending their books.  Even with two known competitors in the marketplace, albeit with one of them being more punchline than competitor.  So unless and until customers change their habits en masse, I doubt CGC leadership will see any reason to change course.  In fact, I'd interpret the constant demand as a sign that the short and long games are equally healthy right now because customers are willing to wait nearly a year to get their 9.2 copies of Amazing Spider-Man 379 back (shout out to @BITCOINSWAMI).

The key words in your statement are "right now".  Which is true.  In this market, CGC can pretty much do what they want and screw up as much as they want and people are still going to submit.  But "right now" isn't the long game.

PSA, Beckett, WATA, and VGA are looking beyond that.  I've been a supporter and defender of CGC since they opened their doors.....for over two decades.  I find myself no longer being able to do that.....and CGC doesn't seem to care much what people think of them, because the gravy is flowing like a waterfall.  What happens when the gravy thins out......or one of the other deep pocketed companies sees that dip in trust and decides to step into the market......and CGC finds out that those staunch supporters over the last 20 years no longer have the loyalty that they used to?

That's the long game....and many of the grading companies seem to be looking at it from that perspective.  Unfortunately, not all of them are.

Will CGC ever lose their top dog position?  Maybe not.  But their actions are those of a company that doesn't believe it could ever happen.  

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Domo Arigato