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Church/MH Superman 1 record sale in January
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Started by Northwest,

406 posts in this topic

rob_react

rob_react

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On 4/14/2022 at 1:48 AM, sfcityduck said:

Not sure what the problems are.

Are the buyer and seller really unknown (I'm sure some folks posting here know who both sides of the transaction are)?  Or was it Bechala?  Buyer anonymity is a given in most every auction. 

 

 

I hope at least one person here knows who both sides of the transaction are lol

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rob_react

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On 4/14/2022 at 10:58 AM, lou_fine said:

Are you really tryimng to say that all comic book sales are invalid except for those sold through a public auction process?  :facepalm:

I remember it was not that long ago when virtually ALL comic book sales were done so-called "privately" beween a dealer and a customer and virtually no books were sold through a public auction process.  :preach:

 

If that's the case, most of the record sales are invalid. Only the bold sales are actual auction results.

Also, if you're calling "fraud" on this at least have the decency (guts/awareness/whatever) to acknowledge that you're accusing SOMEONE POSTING IN THIS THREAD of being part of the fraud. It's not a good look. This isn't some weird illuminati stuff, far removed from us having a conversation here. Nothing happens in the hobby that's more than one or two degrees of separation from someone you're potentially talking to on the boards.  

  • Action Comics #1 by an unknown seller for $250.00 ($2,054.06) sometime in 1965
  • Marvel Comics #1 sold by Howard Rogolfsky for $330.00 ($2,454.24) sometime in 1968
  • Action #1 sold by Gene Henderson for $1,000.00 ($5,829.08) to Bruce Hamilton in April of 1973
  • Action #1 sold by Bruce Hamilton for $1,500.00 ($8,743.61) to Theo Hostein in April of 1973
  • Action #1 sold by Theo Hostein for $1,801.00 ($10,498.17) to Mitch Mehdy in May of 1973
  • Whiz #2 (Reilly Copy) sold by Comics & Comix for $2,000.00 ($10,499.43) to Burl Rowe in January of 1974
  • Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 by an unknown seller for $6,300.00 ($28,655.70) sometime in 1976
  • Marvel Comics #1 sold by Robert Crestohl? for $7,500.00 ($32,031.06) sometime in 1977
  • Marvel Comics #1 by an unknown seller for $13,000.00 ($46,343.57) to John Snyder sometime in 1979
  • Marvel Comics #1 sold by John Snyder for $17,500.00 ($62,385.57) to Steve Geppi in October of 1979
  • Action Comics #1 (Church Copy) sold by John Snyder for $25,000.00 ($62,274.06) to Dave Anderson sometime in 1984
  • Detective Comics #27 (Allentown) sold by Metropolis for $80,000.00 ($158,415.30) to Dave Anderson sometime in 1990
  • Action Comics #1 sold by Sotheby's for $82,500.00 ($152,187.51) to Metropolis (for actor Nic Cage) in September of 1992
  • Detective Comics #27 ('other high grade' copy) by an unknown seller for $101,000.00 ($180,899.04) sometime in 1993
  • Detective Comics #27 (Church) sold by Dave Anderson? for $125,000.00 ($218,295.38) sometime in 1994
  • Action Comics #1 (current CGC 8.5 copy) sold by PCE for $137,500.00 ($233,507.30) to Daniel Kramer sometime in 1995
  • Captain America Comics #1 (Allentown) by an unknown seller for $260,000.00 ($379,959.68) to John Verzyl sometime in 2001
  • Marvel Comics #1 (Pay Copy) sold by Steve Geppi for $350,000.00 ($492,303.53) to JP the Mint in January of 2003
  • Flash Comics #1 (Church copy) by an unknown seller for $350,000.00 ($479,533.35) to JP the Mint sometime in 2004
  • Action Comics #1 (Kansas City) sold by ComicConnect for $1,000,000.00 ($1,186,901.53) in February of 2010
  • Detective Comics #27 sold by Heritage for $1,075,000.00 ($1,275,919.14) in February of 2010
  • Action Comics #1 sold by ComicConnect for $1,500,000.00 ($1,780,352.29) in March of 2010
  • Action Comics #1 (Cage Copy) sold by ComicConnect for $2,161,000.00 ($2,486,409.96) to Ayman Hariri in November of 2011
  • Action Comics #1 sold by Pristine Comics on eBay for $3,207,852.00 ($3,506,975.64) to Metropolis (for Ayman Hariri) in August of 2014
  • Action Comics #1 sold by ComicConnect for $3,250,000.00 ($3,250,000.00) in April of 2021
  • Amazing Fantasy #15 sold by Heritage for $3,600,000.00 ($3,600,000.00) in September of 2021

 

 

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rob_react

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On 4/14/2022 at 12:34 PM, rob_react said:

BTW, I redid my estimates for the top 20 or so books in the hobby after the Amazing Fantasy 15 sale and looking at it now everything has double or tripled in the past 6 months. I can't keep up. 

Even back then, the $20,000,000 figure was blown out of the water (in my mind)

Mile High/Edgar Church Copy of Action #1

Estimated Value: $10,000,000

Allentown Copy of Detective Comics #27

Estimated Value: $9,000,000

Best Existing Superman #1

Estimated Value: $6,000,000

Batman #1 Church Copy

Estimated Value: $3,000,000

 

I can't even. This was 6 months ago! 

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sfcityduck

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On 4/14/2022 at 9:18 AM, rob_react said:

 

Nothing happens in the hobby that's more than one or two degrees of separation from someone you're potentially talking to on the boards.  

  • Action Comics #1 by an unknown seller for $250.00 ($2,054.06) sometime in 1965
  • Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 by an unknown seller for $6,300.00 ($28,655.70) sometime in 1976
  • Detective Comics #27 ('other high grade' copy) by an unknown seller for $101,000.00 ($180,899.04) sometime in 1993

I'm pretty sure we have the info for a buyer or seller for the above three where you are not including it.  The Action 1 info comes from an AP article which I believe names the buyer.  The MPFW info also comes from a news article (Overstreet's market report on 1976 says $6K).  I will check my info.  The D27, I thought you knew.

 

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rob_react

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On 4/14/2022 at 12:44 PM, sfcityduck said:

I'm pretty sure we have the info for a buyer or seller for the above three where you are not including it.  The Action 1 info comes from an AP article which I believe names the buyer.  The MPFW info also comes from a news article (Overstreet's market report on 1976 says $6K).  I will check my info.  The D27, I thought you knew.

 

Thanks, I've got a long queue of updates to do after the past few months. Cleaning up the data at the same time is a winnah!

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Larryw7

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On 4/14/2022 at 10:33 AM, Jaydogrules said:

You mean CGC announced what was reported to it by the private parties ?

-J.

Yeah, Roy and all of the guys here who were witnesses made it all up. It was a plot to discredit AF 15 and the Marvel Zombie movement. And you are powerless to stop it! :devil:

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adamstrange

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On 4/14/2022 at 2:22 AM, tth2 said:

I would argue that this hobby has actually been held back to some degree by the fact that its biggest, most valuable copy has not sold in recent memory.  I think if it ever did sell, the Church Action 1 would set a definitive benchmark in valuation and would become an investment asset that flips periodically at ever increasing prices just like the Gretzky T206 did.

The Party hobby must be purged of all wreckers and counter-revolutionary factions ! 

Edited by adamstrange
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KCOComics

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On 4/14/2022 at 11:48 AM, VintageComics said:

Thank you! 

I brokered the deal. I worked on it for some time before we could finalize it. 

I have to say, it's pretty surreal to turn a hobby I always loved, and used to get bullied and beat up for in grade school and middle school and turn it into something like this. 

Back in the 70s and 80s it wasn't cool to be a comic geek. It was considered fringe. We were thought of as losers and nerds and I even got beat up for it at times as a kid. My parents never understood it as they were always throwing my comic books out. 

I never backed down and always stood my ground, though and it's a little surreal now. 

My dad passed away in 2004 and before he passed he even apologized for taking such a negative view on my comic books. I suppose if he could see my life now he'd be impressed. 

Funny the things we carry with us. 

I do appreciate it very much. 

 

So after you brokered the deal, were you surprised to come here and find out it didn't count because it wasn't at an auction house? 

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VintageComics

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On 4/14/2022 at 1:24 PM, Larryw7 said:

Yeah, Roy and all of the guys here who were witnesses made it all up. It was a plot to discredit AF 15 and the Marvel Zombie movement. And you are powerless to stop it! :devil:

On April 1 2023 The Dentist will trade the Church Action #1 for a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15.

You read it here first. 

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G.A.tor

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On 4/14/2022 at 12:18 PM, rob_react said:

 

If that's the case, most of the record sales are invalid. Only the bold sales are actual auction results.

Also, if you're calling "fraud" on this at least have the decency (guts/awareness/whatever) to acknowledge that you're accusing SOMEONE POSTING IN THIS THREAD of being part of the fraud. It's not a good look. This isn't some weird illuminati stuff, far removed from us having a conversation here. Nothing happens in the hobby that's more than one or two degrees of separation from someone you're potentially talking to on the boards.  

  • Action Comics #1 by an unknown seller for $250.00 ($2,054.06) sometime in 1965
  • Marvel Comics #1 sold by Howard Rogolfsky for $330.00 ($2,454.24) sometime in 1968
  • Action #1 sold by Gene Henderson for $1,000.00 ($5,829.08) to Bruce Hamilton in April of 1973
  • Action #1 sold by Bruce Hamilton for $1,500.00 ($8,743.61) to Theo Hostein in April of 1973
  • Action #1 sold by Theo Hostein for $1,801.00 ($10,498.17) to Mitch Mehdy in May of 1973
  • Whiz #2 (Reilly Copy) sold by Comics & Comix for $2,000.00 ($10,499.43) to Burl Rowe in January of 1974
  • Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 by an unknown seller for $6,300.00 ($28,655.70) sometime in 1976
  • Marvel Comics #1 sold by Robert Crestohl? for $7,500.00 ($32,031.06) sometime in 1977
  • Marvel Comics #1 by an unknown seller for $13,000.00 ($46,343.57) to John Snyder sometime in 1979
  • Marvel Comics #1 sold by John Snyder for $17,500.00 ($62,385.57) to Steve Geppi in October of 1979
  • Action Comics #1 (Church Copy) sold by John Snyder for $25,000.00 ($62,274.06) to Dave Anderson sometime in 1984
  • Detective Comics #27 (Allentown) sold by Metropolis for $80,000.00 ($158,415.30) to Dave Anderson sometime in 1990
  • Action Comics #1 sold by Sotheby's for $82,500.00 ($152,187.51) to Metropolis (for actor Nic Cage) in September of 1992
  • Detective Comics #27 ('other high grade' copy) by an unknown seller for $101,000.00 ($180,899.04) sometime in 1993
  • Detective Comics #27 (Church) sold by Dave Anderson? for $125,000.00 ($218,295.38) sometime in 1994
  • Action Comics #1 (current CGC 8.5 copy) sold by PCE for $137,500.00 ($233,507.30) to Daniel Kramer sometime in 1995
  • Captain America Comics #1 (Allentown) by an unknown seller for $260,000.00 ($379,959.68) to John Verzyl sometime in 2001
  • Marvel Comics #1 (Pay Copy) sold by Steve Geppi for $350,000.00 ($492,303.53) to JP the Mint in January of 2003
  • Flash Comics #1 (Church copy) by an unknown seller for $350,000.00 ($479,533.35) to JP the Mint sometime in 2004
  • Action Comics #1 (Kansas City) sold by ComicConnect for $1,000,000.00 ($1,186,901.53) in February of 2010
  • Detective Comics #27 sold by Heritage for $1,075,000.00 ($1,275,919.14) in February of 2010
  • Action Comics #1 sold by ComicConnect for $1,500,000.00 ($1,780,352.29) in March of 2010
  • Action Comics #1 (Cage Copy) sold by ComicConnect for $2,161,000.00 ($2,486,409.96) to Ayman Hariri in November of 2011
  • Action Comics #1 sold by Pristine Comics on eBay for $3,207,852.00 ($3,506,975.64) to Metropolis (for Ayman Hariri) in August of 2014
  • Action Comics #1 sold by ComicConnect for $3,250,000.00 ($3,250,000.00) in April of 2021
  • Amazing Fantasy #15 sold by Heritage for $3,600,000.00 ($3,600,000.00) in September of 2021

 

 

You left out in 2009 I bought the white rose cgc 6.5 copy of action 1 for $575k.
Was most paid for a comic for a short period of time. 

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Crowzilla

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On 4/14/2022 at 12:23 AM, Jaydogrules said:

Another "private sale".  Yeah, okay.  :eyeroll:The fact that Rozanski is involved doesn't help either.  

Until a sale happens publicly, subject to the same public scrutiny as all of the other public sales that have managed to break records publicly, AF 15 is still top dog.

Period.  

-J.

This guy believes Rozanski was involved in the recent sale of the Superman #1. Why is anyone listening to anything he has to say?

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Crowzilla

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On 4/14/2022 at 11:25 AM, rob_react said:

The most valuable book I've seen in person. 

I thought you saw the Church Tec27 also? Or am I mis-remembering?

It's interesting that both the Church Tec27 and Superman 1, which were seen as "flawed" copies for so long are both CGC 8.5s now. Shows how amazing most of the mega-keys from the Church collection were/are that those two amazing books were frowned upon.

 

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Transplant

Transplant

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On 4/14/2022 at 7:50 AM, KCOComics said:

The one thing I would add to this is, it probably wasn't that big of a gamble to crack and press this book. 

I'm sure for a book of this stature Nelson and CGC reviewed it carefully to see what the realistic possibility was of a grade bump. Then it was given royal treatment all the way through the process. 

Of course there is some risk, but I imagine the buyer had a very good idea of where this would end up. 

There was no risk involved.  

Guessing, but also 99% sure, that there was a commitment it would never fall in grade and could only rise.  Then, it was secreted off to be impartially graded without the graders knowing whose book it was or would so belong to, AT ALL.  

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lou_fine

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Posted (edited)
On 4/14/2022 at 9:18 AM, rob_react said:

Also, if you're calling "fraud" on this at least have the decency (guts/awareness/whatever) to acknowledge that you're accusing SOMEONE POSTING IN THIS THREAD of being part of the fraud. It's not a good look.

I hope you are NOT actually referring to me in your comment here since you quoted my post in your response here?  ???

Especially since I generally agree with the point which you are trying to make here.  (thumbsu

Edited by lou_fine
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lou_fine

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On 4/14/2022 at 11:45 AM, Crowzilla said:

This guy believes Rozanski was involved in the recent sale of the Superman #1. Why is anyone listening to anything he has to say?

What do you mean because the proof is right here, as like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words:  lol

A Note from Charles Rozanski, on the Anniversary of Mile High Comics : r/comicbooks

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VintageComics

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On 4/14/2022 at 3:38 PM, Transplant said:

There was no risk involved.  

Guessing, but also 99% sure, that there was a commitment it would never fall in grade and could only rise.  Then, it was secreted off to be impartially graded without the graders knowing whose book it was or would so belong to, AT ALL.  

No conspiracy theories! :devil:

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rob_react

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On 4/14/2022 at 3:46 PM, lou_fine said:

I hope you are NOT actually referring to me in your comment here since you quoted my post in your response here?  ???

Especially since I generally agree with the point which you are trying to make here.  (thumbsu

No, I'm not referring to you at all. I was making a second, general point 👍

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