WB's BARBIE THE MOVIE starring Margot Robbie (2023) 7 7

[drotto]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:03 AM, Zonker said:

  I think that makes a lot of sense.

In addition, I wonder if the last several years' worth of binge-watching extended series television on Netflix and elsewhere have exhausted audiences from continually seeking out multi-part franchise storylines.  Could be what motivates the audience now to go out to the theater is a well-told standalone story with a beginning, middle, and satisfying ending, all within a single sitting.

James Gunn, are you listening?  

I agree, they need to go back to basics.  Tell good stand alone stories.  That is how the MCU started, and they seem to have forgotten that. Iron Man, Thor, and the first Captain America were 100% stand alone except for the credit scenes and maybe a few lines of dialog. It is also why Gardians worked as a trilogy, those 3 movie told there own story, and had their own vibe.  They could have been completely pulled from the MCU with a few tweaks and been just as good. Which is another lesson for the current MCU.  When everything is so interconnected and you get a few weak links, it all falls apart. That is what has happened with MoM, Ant man 3, and the D+ shows. People saw those, did not like and used as a jumping off point.

 

Good stand alone can be a jumping on point. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by drotto

[Bosco685]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:46 AM, drotto said:

I agree, they need to go back to basics.  Tell good stand alone stories.  That is how the MCU started, and they seem to have forgotten that. Iron Man, Thor, and the first Captain America were 100% stand alone except for the credit scenes and maybe a few lines of dialog. It is also why Gradians worked as a trilogy, those 3 movie told there own story, and had their own vibe.  They could have been completely pulled from the MCU with a few tweaks and been just as good. Which is another lesson for the current MCU.  When everything is so interconnected and you get a few weak links, it all falls apart. That is what has happened with MoM, Ant man 3, and the D+ shows. People saw those, did not like and used as a jumping off point.

 

Good stand alone can be a jumping on point. 

Gradians: CGC Warriors Devine was incredible. Who knew Brad Pitt as Matt Nelson would deliver so solidly.

[Beastfeast]

Saw it last night and it was great.  

It reminds me of a late 80s or early 90s BIG IP movie for all the reasons that we remember those type of movies fondly.  It was surreal, funny, well paced, deeply sad, disgustingly uplifting, corny, weird, and smart.  But not too much of any of those things.  It's also pretty amazing Mattel let that movie be made. 

Am I remembering the He-Man movie wrong in that it also fades to white and He-Man becomes human?

 

[Bosco685]

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

 

[Drummy]

Finally saw this and really enjoyed it.  Margot Robbie can really act, and the goofy awesomeness of both Ryan Gosling and Simu Liu made me smile. 

Surprisingly poignant at times as well.  A-

Dan

[Bosco685]

Who knew?

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

[Bosco685]

[Nick Furious]

Paid the 20 bucks last night to own it digitally.  Definitely worth it, it's a movie that will get watched more than once.  Was second viewing for my 13-year-old daughter, first for me and wife. I imagine everyone involved had a great time writing and reworking the script, they nailed it over and over again.  

[VintageComics]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:27 PM, Nick Furious said:

The Barbie movie does a convincing job of conveying that we really do live in a world that has been molded and shaped primarily by men.  Women have primarily played a background or non-executive participation role.  Part of this is displayed by juxtaposing it against Barbieland, a world that has been molded and shaped by women where men are just the background.  But Barbieland is like the Truman Show, every day they get up, wave and say hello, and go to the beach (where they may or may not silently judge each other).  It's a really good movie and incorporates a lot of small historical details from the history of the toy line.  Has a great opening scene with homage to 2001 A Space Odyssey.  It was helpful to watch it with a 13-year-old daughter who had educated herself on every little background detail and could explain it to me.   

Carry over from a previous thread. 

Thanks for the explanation. I had no point of reference for that movie but had heard a lot about it. Unfortunately, everything I'd heard sounded very charged politically so I couldn't tell what was objective without seeing it. 

A patriarch used to be considered a good thing. Now, all of a sudden it's a bad thing. 

Let me explain:

The word patriarchy these days is being misused to convey something other than what it originally meant, much like the discussion we had about misogyny being mistaken for chauvinism in the Marvels thread. Both terms are misused to imply that men as a group are bad and do these things to women with purpose.

Since the word misogyny is misused, and anyone who is a patriarch would be a misogynist, that means the foundation for the new concept of patriarchy is being misused as well. 

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I've been married twice.

In my 1st marriage she had a super strong will and I actually had to hold the line with MY boundaries so that they wouldn't get crossed over and yet, she preferred a traditional role in our private relationship, so where was the "patriarchy" there?

In my 2nd marriage, she was the strongest willed person I'd known in many aspects of her life (especially business and friendships where she was a rock to many) as well as one of the smartest women I'd ever known (highly successful) but as I'd stated in another thread she preferred a traditional role in our relationship, so where was the patriarchy there?

In nearly every experience with every woman in my life, save a small percentage they have ALL wanted to be in traditional relationship roles BY CHOICE. I know these are only anecdotal examples, but it's been my experience for 50 years that MOST of the women I've interacted with WANT THEIR MEN TO TAKE THE LEAD in their interpersonal relationship.

This is going to sound crazy, but I quite literally ask this of strange women when I meet them if we strike up a convo over anything innocuous like world news or the weather and women start screaming "YES! YES! Someone finally gets it!" 

I'm telling you from first hand experience, and from what my wifes, daughters, friends AND TOTAL STRANGERS HAVE TOLD ME is that if you want to date a woman today, the media will tell you to act the opposite of what the majority of women on the street really want. 

You want proof? The media has never been more powerful, people have never been more lonely and people have never been more single than today. 

The proof is out there in your face. 

My grandfather rescued my dad, 6 siblings and my grandmother from communist Europe when they stole everything from my family, brought them here to the West and built a family with over 100 grandchildren and great grandchildren along with my over 30 aunts and unles.

He literally built an empire of successful citizens from scratch who now all go on to help others. 

That's what a patriarch used to be defined as. 

How is a patriarch defined today? Certainly not like that. 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by VintageComics

[Nick Furious]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:52 PM, VintageComics said:

Carry over from a previous thread. 

Thanks for the explanation. I had no point of reference for that movie but had heard a lot about it. Unfortunately, everything I'd heard sounded very charged politically so I couldn't tell what was objective without seeing it. 

A patriarch used to be considered a good thing. Now, all of a sudden it's a bad thing. 

Let me explain:

The word patriarchy these days is being misused to convey something other than what it originally meant, much like the discussion we had about misogyny being mistaken for chauvinism in the Marvels thread. Both terms are misused to imply that men as a group are bad and do these things to women with purpose.

Since the word misogyny is misused, and anyone who is a patriarch would be a misogynist, that means the foundation for the new concept of patriarchy is being misused as well. 

------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been married twice.

In my 1st marriage she had a super strong will and I actually had to hold the line with MY boundaries so that they wouldn't get crossed over and yet, she preferred a traditional role in our private relationship, so where was the "patriarchy" there?

In my 2nd marriage, she was the strongest willed person I'd known in many aspects of her life (especially business and friendships where she was a rock to many) as well as one of the smartest women I'd ever known (highly successful) but as I'd stated in another thread she preferred a traditional role in our relationship, so where was the patriarchy there?

In nearly every experience with every woman in my life, save a small percentage they have ALL wanted to be in traditional relationship roles BY CHOICE. I know these are only anecdotal examples, but it's been my experience for 50 years that MOST of the women I've interacted with WANT THEIR MEN TO TAKE THE LEAD in their interpersonal relationship.

This is going to sound crazy, but I quite literally ask this of strange women when I meet them if we strike up a convo over anything innocuous like world news or the weather and women start screaming "YES! YES! Someone finally gets it!" 

I'm telling you from first hand experience, and from what my wifes, daughters, friends AND TOTAL STRANGERS HAVE TOLD ME is that if you want to date a woman today, the media will tell you to act the opposite of what the majority of women on the street really want. 

You want proof? The media has never been more powerful, people have never been more lonely and people have never been more single than today. 

The proof is out there in your face. 

My grandfather rescued my dad, 6 siblings and my grandmother from communist Europe when they stole everything from my family, brought them here to the West and built a family with over 100 grandchildren and great grandchildren along with my over 30 aunts and unles.

He literally built an empire of successful citizens from scratch who now all go on to help others. 

That's what a patriarch used to be defined as. 

How is a patriarch defined today? Certainly not like that. 

 

It's a good movie.  Better than good, it's an instant classic.  Watch it for yourself and decide.  Sure, it throws jabs, but it doesn't swing haymakers and sledgehammers.  And it's done the right way, using humor...satire in particular.  Someone realized that the Barbie toy line history is really a great vehicle for quality satire.  We're too polarized as a society.  Too tribal.  Rather than judge for themselves, people often decide they don't like something purely based on the other tribe liking it.  I don't think you are that way; I think you will enjoy it.   

[chrisco37]

On 9/4/2023 at 4:28 PM, Beastfeast said:

Saw it last night and it was great.  

It reminds me of a late 80s or early 90s BIG IP movie for all the reasons that we remember those type of movies fondly.  It was surreal, funny, well paced, deeply sad, disgustingly uplifting, corny, weird, and smart.  But not too much of any of those things.  It's also pretty amazing Mattel let that movie be made. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Am I remembering the He-Man movie wrong in that it also fades to white and He-Man becomes human?

 

 

I saw it last night and this is a pretty spot on review.  I thought it was about 20 minutes too long, but it was entertaining.  I thought it was pretty clever.

 I liked how there was really no concept of/regard for time in the Barbie-world.  The Barbie’s plan to save Barbie-land would have taken quite a while to execute but they were able to pull it off the day of the election.  

Also having all the females named Barbie and all the males Ken made me laugh pretty good.

B+

[VintageComics]

On 11/11/2023 at 2:24 PM, Nick Furious said:

It's a good movie.  Better than good, it's an instant classic.  Watch it for yourself and decide.  Sure, it throws jabs, but it doesn't swing haymakers and sledgehammers.  And it's done the right way, using humor...satire in particular.  Someone realized that the Barbie toy line history is really a great vehicle for quality satire.  We're too polarized as a society.  Too tribal.  Rather than judge for themselves, people often decide they don't like something purely based on the other tribe liking it.  I don't think you are that way; I think you will enjoy it.   

I'm not tribal at all and have always spoken out against tribalism since I was a kid. It's why I got beat up in grade school by the bullies. I never backed down on a principle I believed in no matter which side it came from, which is not how most people make decisions. As proof, one last time I'll offer the fact that I've left MY TRIBE, my family and everything I was brought up with behind because I felt it was wrong...and I left it to never join another tribe again. Not many can say that. 

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I'm very much looking forward to this. I've spoken to many of my female friends about the movie, they've all spoken overwhelmingly about it, and I can understand why. 

The movie empowers them in ways that they haven't been able to be empowered in the real world and I love that as well, with my whole heart. 

One of my daughters on Father's Day a few years ago wrote that I was the 1st man she ever loved. That hit me in a way that if you haven't had a daughter may never understand.

I've worked VERY HARD at trying to be a man that women want to be around for the long term and I feel I have an above average grasp of how women feel out in the world and while everyone has ups and downs, even my ex wives get along with each other. Seriously. We can all sit at dinner together.

Heck, I've brought a lady friend over to my ex's home and had dinner with them both at the same table. 

-----------------------------------

I don't disagree that women have obstacles. Everyone has obstacles. What I disagree with is how those obstacles are defined and the solution offered to "remove" them. 

Removing obstacles is NOT the solution. Learning from them and moving past them is. 

Let me explain. 

Women have obstacles in a man's world in a similar but opposite way that men have obstacles in women's world. 

For example, there are fields where men have NO CHANCE of succeeding because it's determined by biology and psychology, and you CAN NOT CHANGE BIOLOGY.

Caregiving is one. Women make MUCH better caregivers in EVERY SITUATION. 

Why are women better caregivers? Because WOMEN are MORE AGREEABLE than men. Men are less agreeable than women. 

Because women are more agreeable, they tend to think more communally and do what is better for others before they do it for themselves. This makes them great doctors, nurses, practitioners, caregivers. 

Counterpoint: Because men are LESS AGREEABLE than women, they tend to do better in the CORPORATE world. Why? Because the corporate world, as NOBODY will disagree is CUT THROAT. 

Because men have more aggression, it makes them worse caregivers and stronger corporate negotiator's. 

Men are MORE LIKELY to sacrifice their family time for their job because they are LESS AGREEABLE and more aggressive.

Women are LESS LIKELY to sacrifice their family time for their jobs because they are MORE AGREEABLE and less aggressive. 

Now factor in that because only women can carry children and give birth, their time in the workforce is severely limited by THEIR BIOLOGY. Men don't have to stop working while their wives give birth. If you have several children, you've donated YEARS of your working years toward your children. 

These psychological and biological factor create ALL SORTS of logistical differences for men and women, but the media would have you believe the simple dog whistle that men are bad.

Do you see how divisive and unhelpful that narrative is? It's destructive and does the OPPOSITE of help the problem. It stops the discussion, pits people against each other and raises the temperature in the room. 

So what's the solution?

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Well, the solution is NOT forcing women into jobs they're less qualified for, NOT forcing men into jobs they're less qualified for (in some egalitarian countries and they have laws to protect the men - not the women - kind of like my 1st marriage , because the women are the majority) AND TEACHING people about the differences between men and women and sharing ways to incorporate solutions. 

The real solution is the same for every obstacle whether it's human rights or any other world problem: It's to educate men and women on their differences so that they can work together to create solutions for the future, and movies like this one - if I'm reading it correctly - using humor and satire may actually do that, but changing the meaning of the word patriarchy to imply something negative is counterproductive and only used a dog whistle used by the media to divide people perpetually. 

Why EVERYONE wouldn't opt for the educated solution is beyond me, but it needs to be done without putting down one side while lifting the other and

I'll let you know when I see it. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by VintageComics

[Bosco685]

[CAHokie]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:53 PM, VintageComics said:

It's why I got beat up in grade school by the bullies.

Sure….THATS why!

On 11/11/2023 at 3:53 PM, VintageComics said:

only women can carry children and give birth

Uh oh…. Someone may come along and say this is not true. 

[namisgr]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[VintageComics]

On 11/11/2023 at 7:48 PM, namisgr said:

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'll take that as a compliment, although I'm usually right.

It's very easy to make any position 'look' reasonable when one can eliminate all opposition. That's how every dishonest regime throughout history did it. 

This movie is OBVIOUSLY about elevating women and so it's inevitable that this discussion is going to happen any time the movie is discussed and that's a great thing. 

The real test of whether a point stands on its own merits is not if an authority states the point is true, but if those points stand under scrutiny. If anyone can make a reasonable case to disagree, I'm all ears but if you can't make a case under scrutiny then the point must give way to better points. 

There's really far more to this discussion, like HOW to inspire change in how men and women interact and how to remove TRUE inequalities, rather than just "perceived" or even "engineered inequalities" but I'm staying on point until I see the movie and can comment on it. 

In fact, I messaged my daughters this afternoon and one of them hasn't seen it yet so we'll be watching it together next week. I'm really excited about it!

I'm going to try to see if their mom and my other daughters are available as well.

I'll definitely report back what we think afterward. 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by VintageComics