WB's BARBIE THE MOVIE starring Margot Robbie (2023) 7 7

[Buzzetta]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:27 PM, CAHokie said:

We will all be waiting in suspense. I will book a three hour block for tomorrow to read it all. 

Where is Barbie currently streaming if it even is at this point? 

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:54 PM, Buzzetta said:

On 11/19/2023 at 10:27 PM, CAHokie said:

We will all be waiting in suspense. I will book a three hour block for tomorrow to read it all. 

Where is Barbie currently streaming if it even is at this point? 

Under Kang's feet, where everything belongs. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by VintageComics

[CAHokie]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:54 PM, Buzzetta said:

Where is Barbie currently streaming if it even is at this point? 

 

I will watch it when it streams on HBO…. sorry, “MAX.”   I think it’s been available on Youtube or Amazon for a price.

[VintageComics]

I watched the movie with one of my daughters and her boyfriend. 

We all found the movie very funny, especially some of the Ken scenes. We were laughing out loud at times uncontrollably. 

The "beach you off" scene was pretty ingenious.

The main thing that I personally felt was that I couldn't relate to these portrayals of "men". I've just never been that "bro" person, and I can illustrate with a story about how our family functions.

One of my daughters broke up with her long time boyfriends a while back and was pretty heartbroken about it, but I have to hand it to my kids because they are generally very well wired, really intelligent but also emotionally very mature. After the usual mourning period of a week or two, she started to think things through logically.

To her surprise, her boyfriend asked to get back together and SHE had decided she didn't want to after being the one dumped on. 

She wanted to "think about it". 

I was pretty surprised so we did the usual father daughter talks, and she decided she wanted some things to change if she was going to get back into this relationship. So she had the talk with her ex and they managed to work things out and things are very different now.

She was 21 when this happened, so barely an adult in human years but a fully mature adult in emotional IQ. 

They got back together after a trial period and now they are happier than ever. 

This is the world I live in, and how our family operates so I just can't relate to the "bros" in that movie.

That's not saying it DOESN'T happen. I know it does. 

My daughters and female friends tell me how often they get **** pics and lewd comments in their inboxes and it is MUCH more common than the average man realizes. Lewd comments, genitals, creepy stuff thrown their way is actually the norm for women, but and this is a big BUT, this leads me into my 2nd point. 

And I'm going to make that point after I think about it a bit. I have some work to do. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by VintageComics

[CAHokie]

On 11/20/2023 at 10:40 AM, VintageComics said:

I watched the movie with one of my daughters and her boyfriend. 

We all found the movie very funny, especially some of the Ken scenes. We were laughing out loud at times uncontrollably. 

The "beach you off" scene was pretty ingenious.

The main thing that I personally felt was that I couldn't relate to these portrayals of "men". I've just never been that "bro" person, and I can illustrate with a story about how our family functions.

One of my daughters broke up with her long time boyfriends a while back and was pretty heartbroken about it, but I have to hand it to my kids because they are generally very well wired, really intelligent but also emotionally very mature. After the usual mourning period of a week or two, she started to think things through logically.

To her surprise, her boyfriend asked to get back together and SHE had decided she didn't want to after being the one dumped on. 

She wanted to "think about it". 

I was pretty surprised so we did the usual father daughter talks, and she decided she wanted some things to change if she was going to get back into this relationship. So she had the talk with her ex and they managed to work things out and things are very different now.

She was 21 when this happened, so barely an adult in human years but a fully mature adult in emotional IQ. 

They got back together after a trial period and now they are happier than ever. 

This is the world I live in, and how our family operates so I just can't relate to the "bros" in that movie.

That's not saying it DOESN'T happen. I know it does. 

My daughters and female friends tell me how often they get **** pics and lewd comments in their inboxes and it is MUCH more common than the average man realizes. Lewd comments, genitals, creepy stuff thrown their way is actually the norm for women, but and this is a big BUT, this leads me into my 2nd point. 

And I'm going to make that point after I think about it a bit. I have some work to do. 

Wait, was this the review or just a prequel??? 

[VintageComics]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:21 PM, CAHokie said:

Wait, was this the review or just a prequel??? 

Would you expect any less from me than a deluge of biblical proportions? 

[VintageComics]

On 11/20/2023 at 10:40 AM, VintageComics said:

My daughters and female friends tell me how often they get **** pics and lewd comments in their inboxes and it is MUCH more common than the average man realizes. Lewd comments, genitals, creepy stuff thrown their way is actually the norm for women, but and this is a big BUT, this leads me into my 2nd point. 

And I'm going to make that point after I think about it a bit. I have some work to do. 

Adding to my previous post, my daughter and I had an interesting discussion after the movie. 

It's IMPOSSIBLE to miss the message of the movie and how this movie is using the inertia of current political and social movements to propel it. 

We both agreed it was funny but that it also exaggerated a lot of points to make it's own point (those were my daughter's words, not mine BTW).

Spoilers because I'm discussing the plot.

Spoiler

The central theme is obviously how these women in Barbieland were "happy" until they started to change due to a "disturbance" and be less like Barbies and more like women in the real world. They started losing the Barbie magic, and they started aging, making mistakes and doing things normal people do and this made the Barbies unhappy.

The source of their unhappiness is initially about how they look and feel, causing anxiety, but eventually that "anxiety" and uneasiness becomes focused on the antagonists, which are men in general. As Barbie and Ken go into the real world, Ken starts to get addicted to being a man and Barbie starts feeling more and more stressed, anxious and unhappy. 

The men eventually end up in the role of antagonists and the movie goes on to label men as belonging to "the patriarchy" which has become such a divisive word that everyone clearly knows what it means.

It means men are problematic because they rule the world unfairly and the movie goes on to delve into those details from a woman's POV.

That's where I started to see a disingenuous message forming, because the portrayal of the patriarchy in the movie is such that it's "all men's fault" and the women are victims, but anyone who has been in a relationship knows that every relationship is 50/50, quite literally.

------------------------------

As an aside, in much the same way, I do call out disingenuous film making about women, where they are stereotyped or misportrayed. The criticism goes both ways, as it should and anyone who has followed my posts on here over 20 years knows that many times I've attempted to curb discussions that I felt were disrespectful toward women.

The earliest recollection I have of this is when BOC's "Babe" thread was shut down by Architect. There was a bit of an uproar about it and yet I stood on the side that if we wanted women in the hobby, that babe threads would make women feel disenfranchised - this was about 15 years ago. I think at one point some of the women even started a "Babe thread" for women, with only men in it. 

I'm just pointing this out to say that my criticisms are not only one sided. 

---------------------------------

And so the gist of the Barbie movie is that men are at fault and women are victims of men. 

I'd like to again bring up my 21 year old daughter's relationship from my post above because I think it's very relevant. In her relationship, it was on HER to draw boundaries to define what she wanted in her relationship, and more importantly what she didn't want in a relationship - and that's exactly what she did. 

The movie gives the impression that men are ogres when in fact, all men aren't ogres, just like all women aren't pushovers even though the movie portrays them this way. 

And that's where I think the problem lies, not in the quality of the movie. I thought the movie was absolutely great in a vacuum. 

Unfortunately, we're not a vacuum and the problem with this movie is how it's going to be accepted by the culture of people viewing the movie, embracing the negative points made in the movie as gospel, which some people seem to be doing even in this very thread.

Weird, right? 

Again, my daughter AND her mom BOTH thought the movie was off base, using the word "silly" to describe it. 

And I think the main reason they think so is because they are strong, independent women who have no problem standing up to men. 

Men simply don't walk all over the women in my life. 

 

Looking at this from a different perspective, I can totally see how this movie will speak to women who are not used to standing up for themselves. Every women that I know well, that thought this movie was 'awesome' are also women who have a lot of pressure in their personal lives and yet refuse to draw boundaries for themselves to relieve that pressure. 

I think this is really the most significant, underlying point that the movie does nothing to address.

Nor does it actually address the main reason why men and women behave antagonistically toward EACH OTHER: BIOLOGY. 

I have some other thoughts but that is the gist of it for now.

Edited November 20, 2023 by VintageComics

[Nick Furious]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:17 PM, VintageComics said:

We both agreed it was funny but that it also exaggerated a lot of points to make it's own point (those were my daughter's words, not mine BTW).

That's pretty much the definition of satire.  the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

I personally have an appreciation for good quality satire.  I think, when done well, it is the highest form of humor.  I don't get too hung up on who or what is being satirized.  Because in truth, just about everybody and everything is worthy of satirizing.  I have a bigger problem when humor get nasty and mean-spirited.  When @CAHokie said he was going to free up 3 hours to read your review...that's satire.  Same when I said I was going to call in sick and grab a bottle of whiskey.  Good satire avoids getting mean-spirited, often by going way over the top and into the realm of absurdity.      

[VintageComics]

On 11/20/2023 at 11:36 PM, Nick Furious said:

That's pretty much the definition of satire.  the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

I personally have an appreciation for good quality satire.  I think, when done well, it is the highest form of humor.  I don't get too hung up on who or what is being satirized.  Because in truth, just about everybody and everything is worthy of satirizing.  I have a bigger problem when humor get nasty and mean-spirited.  When @CAHokie said he was going to free up 3 hours to read your review...that's satire.  Same when I said I was going to call in sick and grab a bottle of whiskey.  Good satire avoids getting mean-spirited, often by going way over the top and into the realm of absurdity.      

Oh, I'm well aware of what satire is. 

I'm also well aware of the context the satire is placed in.

If you drop a satire video of Hitler in 1939 Germany it may not be as well received as it would be received today even though it's satire. Extreme example but it illustrates my point. 

And so this movie is dropped into a political atmosphere that is so charged that people literally are fighting in the streets over the content that the satire is addressing...but it's just satire. 

Anyway, just trying to keep everything in it's proper perspective. The video did have funny moments but I generally dislike movies that are overly animated and have no touch with reality (Charlie and the Chocolate factory, the Harry Potter movies and many others that I totally can't watch for this very reason) and so to me personally, all of the extra silly animation really took away from the movie rather than added to it. 

 

 

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 11/20/2023 at 6:22 AM, CAHokie said:

I will watch it when it streams on HBO…. sorry, “MAX.”   I think it’s been available on Youtube or Amazon for a price.

Comcast got it right now for $5.99 on demand.

How do I know?

My 15-year-old daughter is coming over on Thanksgiving and she wants me to order it for her.

I asked her if she wanted to go see Marvels instead and she said no way!

 haha

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/21/2023 at 2:40 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

My 15-year-old daughter is coming over on Thanksgiving and she wants me to order it for her.

My ex was right, it's a good movie for dads to see with their daughters, and that might be the best demographic for this movie. 

It does really held shine a light onto how some women feel in society. The problem is that it doesn't represent all men or all women while pretending it does. 

------------------------------------

The movie has an overarching, underlying and obvious agenda that it attempts to address, but in this charged climate, it doesn't do it effectively and in fact, it does it in exactly the same way the Mainstream Media (MSM) does it - through lies of omission while levying charges of a heinous crime creating more problems than solutions.

Yes, I know this is 'satire' but the message isn't being taken as satirical. There people using this movie as a lightning rod.

This is quite literally the standard MSM playbook on every major divisive topic out there. 

By projecting "anger" against all men, as the movie does and portraying every man in the movie as a bumbling insufficiently_thoughtful_person who wants to keep their 'fun manhood' intact, the movie makes a blanket statement about men in a calculated way. 

Worse, it makes a blanket statement about women, painting them as being all the same, dumb bimbos, making them look "anxious" and "oppressed" by the patriarchy, which is ridiculous. 

[Zonker]

On 11/21/2023 at 4:38 PM, VintageComics said:

The problem is that it doesn't represent all men or all women while pretending it does. 

 

See, I don't think the movie is pretending that at all.  Before the movie was even written, the foundation was set with the toy Barbie having a history of being both: 

a) a certain physical body type often thought of as an ideal; while also
b) at least in recent years, a vessel for the widest possible career aspirations for women (Astronaut Barbie, anyone?)

While the Ken doll was generally (I think, not being much of an authority on this) at most a clothes horse, or arm-candy for Barbie.  So, Ken & Barbie are not really great examples of EveryMan & EveryWoman.  They actually represent a kind of reverse-patriarchy, or a matriarchy, that the movie plays with in its first act set in Barbieland.  They could have kept it there, with the Kens gradually coming to realize there might be more to life than Beach, organizing to get better access to all those accessories available to the Barbies of Barbieland, etc.  But that would have been a pretty simplistic reverse-allegory and somewhat boring after a while I would think. 

[Nick Furious]

On 11/21/2023 at 4:23 PM, Zonker said:

They could have kept it there, with the Kens gradually coming to realize there might be more to life than Beach, organizing to get better access to all those accessories available to the Barbies of Barbieland, etc.  But that would have been a pretty simplistic reverse-allegory and somewhat boring after a while I would think. 

I agree.  The most memorable part of the movie was when the Ken's pulled a coup and immediately turned Barbieland into a Frat House Fantasy.  Brew-beer me bro!

[Dr. Balls]

We watched it this past weekend. It was a lot of fun. It struck me as very bizarre, like a Terry Gilliam movie. It crossed back and forth from Me Too social commentary to hilariously insane spectacles. It was a crazy mix of adult themes with adolescent-geared visuals. It was just a super weird movie, but fun. I also have no children, so I probably took something different away from it than most people.

[Mr Sneeze]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:40 AM, Dr. Balls said:

We watched it this past weekend. It was a lot of fun. It struck me as very bizarre, like a Terry Gilliam movie. It crossed back and forth from Me Too social commentary to hilariously insane spectacles. It was a crazy mix of adult themes with adolescent-geared visuals. It was just a super weird movie, but fun. I also have no children, so I probably took something different away from it than most people.

Gilliam is a good comparison. I liked the practical sets as well. It kept my interest to be sure.

[VintageComics]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:23 PM, Zonker said:

They actually represent a kind of reverse-patriarchy, or a matriarchy,

Right. I did catch that. 

But why I think they "pretended" the patriarchy represented all men was because the matriarchy represented all women in the 1st act. 

I saw the two as direct opposites or rmirror images of each other, but maybe I'm overthinking it and being too technical and I'll admit, I do tend to do that. My mind very quickly goes to analytical first.

I actually have been thinking to watch it a 2nd time, just to better get "into" the movie, without the analytics. 

 

[Nick Furious]

On 11/21/2023 at 4:23 PM, Zonker said:

They actually represent a kind of reverse-patriarchy, or a matriarchy,

 

On 11/22/2023 at 3:17 PM, VintageComics said:

But why I think they "pretended" the patriarchy represented all men was because the matriarchy represented all women in the 1st act. 

Keep in mind pretty much everyone in Barbieland was named Ken or Barbie.  The Matriarchy represented all Barbies (except Weird Barbie), not all women.  The Patriarchy represented all Ken's, not all men. 

...and here I am, night before Thanksgiving, debating the Barbie Movie on a comic book forum.  My shame is great.  I should inoculate myself with a football game or something.       

Edited November 23, 2023 by Nick Furious

[VintageComics]

On 11/22/2023 at 7:34 PM, Nick Furious said:

...and here I am, night before Thanksgiving, debating the Barbie Movie on a comic book forum.  My shame is great.  I should inoculate myself with a football game or something. 

I thought you were a Canuck?

[Nick Furious]

On 11/22/2023 at 6:41 PM, VintageComics said:

I thought you were a Canuck?

Ha!  You so crazy...

[Gatsby77]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:23 PM, Zonker said:

See, I don't think the movie is pretending that at all.  Before the movie was even written, the foundation was set with the toy Barbie having a history of being both: 

a) a certain physical body type often thought of as an ideal; while also
b) at least in recent years, a vessel for the widest possible career aspirations for women (Astronaut Barbie, anyone?)

Re. b) I'd disagree with the "in recent years" bit.

Barbie has been showcasing wide-ranging aspirational careers for women (beyond just teacher or nurse) for decades, since near its inception.

Astronaut Barbie is a perfect example - the first Astronaut Barbie doll was released in 1965, years before the moon landing.