Book Sold With Missing Page - Who Is Responsible? 7 7

[Robot Man]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:45 AM, KirbyJack said:

I have been the guy on the other side of this, and mistakenly sold incomplete comics without disclosing it. 
I bent over backwards to make it right, and I would expect the same from most of the sellers here.

I would expect that of ALL sellers here. This ain’t eBay. It has probably happened to a lot of us. I know I include myself. But waiting 9 months to find out just isn’t fair.

The first thing I do when I receive it is to count the pages, look for missing coupons and the like and inspect the book. If I have any problem, I notify the seller right away. That is MY responsibility.

I also don’t bid on a book on eBay with nothing but a front/back photo and no description or grade. Especially for any real amount of money.

Sorry to the original poster but hard lesson…

[oakman29]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:46 AM, Math Teacher said:

I fully admit my mistake. I have seen this emphasized over and over here on the boards. In my case, this was a book for which I had been searching for quite some time. I was just excited to obtain it, and I wanted to get it to CGC as soon as possible. Normally, I only buy graded copies, especially if the book is $500+. I guess that is how I will have to proceed in the future.

So the book in question is an important book that you have been looking for for a long time? Even more reason to check the book when it arrives from a seller. I personally don't care if the seller has a Detective #27 for ten dollars. If he's not a seller I have dealt with before I'm not buying it. 

So let me be the one to give you a list of my best sellers here.

Bob Storms- highgradecomics.com

Randall Dowling- Douglas has a flair for finding great books.

Wombat- Hes my brother from another mother. We have the exact same collecting focus.

DeadOne- hes not around as often these days.

Bounty_coder- sexy horror goodness. Knows his sheit.

 

Makmorn- same as Bounty_coder. 

Lions den- plethora of smarts.

ThothAmon - killer dude @ThothAmon

Any one of these guys and you cant go wrong.

 

[wombat]

Its just way too long to expect any kind of refund. Where exactly do you draw the line? What if you found out 2 years later? Would you expect the seller to do something for you?

[Lightning55]

Reminds me of this old thread from "the other guys" https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/11280/page/1/bad-deal-with-a-decent-outcome/#22

Buyer bought a raw book as a 9.2 and it came back from CGC at 7.0  He got his credit card company to compensate him from the seller's funds after 5 months, after getting pressed, getting graded, etc.

If it came back 9.6, I don't think he would be sending the seller a check for hundreds of dollars as "compensation" the other way.

 

[Math Teacher]

On 5/7/2022 at 5:42 PM, jcjames said:

I didn't see this as a question of whether the original seller is responsible for the CGC grade. I thought the OPs question was about who's responsible for the CGC grade, and that would be the one who submitted it.

Clearly the seller is responsible for not properly representing the book (unknowingly or not), but this was way past the statute of limitations for him getting any kind of recompense from the original seller, imo.

Unprecedented times notwithstanding, the buyer should still check his purchase within a reasonable amount of time, maybe a few weeks after receiving it. 

In my original post, I don't believe that I blamed the seller for the CGC grade. I stated that the seller should shoulder some of the responsibility for my purchase, as I know I wouldn't have purchased this book, nor would I have sent it to CGC, had I known it was missing a page.

It seems that the crux of the matter is the amount of time I took to notice the error. In retrospect, I should have counted the pages when I initially received the book. I now understand that fully, so I would appreciate it if people would stop telling me this. And I clearly stated in my original post that I was partially responsible for the problem. 

"I will fully admit that I am partially to blame for this problem. I should have taken the time to open the book and count the pages. This was a terrible mistake, and it is one that I will never repeat. However, I don't think that I should shoulder all the blame for this problem. If the seller had informed me that the book was missing a page, I would have never bought it."

I just don't want to go into every transaction expecting the seller to have made a mistake or that the seller is being dishonest. I have made many friends here, and I often ask them for their advice. If I trust someone enough to ask for their advice, shouldn't I also trust them to disclose any possible flaws in a book they are selling? Hypothetically speaking, that is.

[jcjames]

On 5/7/2022 at 8:35 PM, Math Teacher said:

In my original post, I don't believe that I blamed the seller for the CGC grade. I stated that the seller should shoulder some of the responsibility for my purchase, as I know I wouldn't have purchased this book, nor would I have sent it to CGC, had I known it was missing a page.

It seems that the crux of the matter is the amount of time I took to notice the error. In retrospect, I should have counted the pages when I initially received the book. I now understand that fully, so I would appreciate it if people would stop telling me this. And I clearly stated in my original post that I was partially responsible for the problem. 

"I will fully admit that I am partially to blame for this problem. I should have taken the time to open the book and count the pages. This was a terrible mistake, and it is one that I will never repeat. However, I don't think that I should shoulder all the blame for this problem. If the seller had informed me that the book was missing a page, I would have never bought it."

I just don't want to go into every transaction expecting the seller to have made a mistake or that the seller is being dishonest. I have made many friends here, and I often ask them for their advice. If I trust someone enough to ask for their advice, shouldn't I also trust them to disclose any possible flaws in a book they are selling? Hypothetically speaking, that is.

I hear ya! I do understand - and have been there myself as has most everyone at some time. Seller is to blame for either 1) not disclosing a known major defect, or 2) selling and not knowing that it had that major defect. Buyer is to blame for not checking the purchase in a timely manner. So yeah, there is some egg on faces all around. I just thought your post was more about the fact that you didn't know until CGC graded it, which I think is only on you, the seller is long out of the picture by now. 

I learned to never pay any decent money (maybe over $20) on a book without inspecting it carefully, or inspecting it almost immediately upon receiving it. One time I bought a raw midgrade SA minor key at a Con from a fellow boardie who was set up there. I didn't open and check every page, and the seller didn't disclose any damage. I got home and immediately saw that there was a coupon cut out. I debated whether to go BACK to the Con and bring it to the seller's attention, but I decided not to. I definitely learned my lesson. 

 

[jcjames]

On 5/7/2022 at 8:20 PM, Lightning55 said:

Reminds me of this old thread from "the other guys" https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/11280/page/1/bad-deal-with-a-decent-outcome/#22

Buyer bought a raw book as a 9.2 and it came back from CGC at 7.0  He got his credit card company to compensate him from the seller's funds after 5 months, after getting pressed, getting graded, etc.

If it came back 9.6, I don't think he would be sending the seller a check for hundreds of dollars as "compensation" the other way.

 

That is some massive boulderdash. If he has to send it to CGC to find out a "9.2" is actually a "7.0", then he shouldn't even be in the game. As you say, if any seller advertises a "7.0" and it comes back "9.2", I seriously doubt the buyer here would send the seller an additional $300 for the grade-bump. 

[JollyComics]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:46 PM, Math Teacher said:

I fully admit my mistake. I have seen this emphasized over and over here on the boards. In my case, this was a book for which I had been searching for quite some time. I was just excited to obtain it, and I wanted to get it to CGC as soon as possible. Normally, I only buy graded copies, especially if the book is $500+. I guess that is how I will have to proceed in the future.

I have done to @kav at all the time but this time..this is for you.  Learned lessons.

[kav]

On 5/8/2022 at 8:48 AM, JollyComics said:

I have done to @kav at all the time but this time..this is for you.  Learned lessons.

yup we learn to seal with it

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 5/8/2022 at 11:48 AM, JollyComics said:

I have done to @kav at all the time but this time..this is for you.  Learned lessons.

 

[Robot Man]

On 5/7/2022 at 8:35 PM, Math Teacher said:

In my original post, I don't believe that I blamed the seller for the CGC grade. I stated that the seller should shoulder some of the responsibility for my purchase, as I know I wouldn't have purchased this book, nor would I have sent it to CGC, had I known it was missing a page.

It seems that the crux of the matter is the amount of time I took to notice the error. In retrospect, I should have counted the pages when I initially received the book. I now understand that fully, so I would appreciate it if people would stop telling me this. And I clearly stated in my original post that I was partially responsible for the problem. 

"I will fully admit that I am partially to blame for this problem. I should have taken the time to open the book and count the pages. This was a terrible mistake, and it is one that I will never repeat. However, I don't think that I should shoulder all the blame for this problem. If the seller had informed me that the book was missing a page, I would have never bought it."

I just don't want to go into every transaction expecting the seller to have made a mistake or that the seller is being dishonest. I have made many friends here, and I often ask them for their advice. If I trust someone enough to ask for their advice, shouldn't I also trust them to disclose any possible flaws in a book they are selling? Hypothetically speaking, that is.

“Hypothetically” yes. A lot depends who you are buying from. eBay is full of sellers who don’t know or care to accurately grade a book. Many never look inside. Are they trying to “cheat” you? Maybe, but I chalk it up to laziness and sloppy selling overall. Always read the description, look at the pictures. Check feedback and see what else they are selling. You shouldn’t have to ask questions but sometimes you do. Trust no one but your self. And if you have a problem, contact the seller right away.

Curious, did you look at the book before you sent it in? I don’t think so. Sorry, but a hard lesson. It comes with the territory unfortunately…

By the way, I’ve had the best transactions right here. Knowledgeable and passionate collectors. You don’t last long here if you are sloppy or lazy…

[The Lions Den]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:35 PM, Math Teacher said:

In my original post, I don't believe that I blamed the seller for the CGC grade. I stated that the seller should shoulder some of the responsibility for my purchase, as I know I wouldn't have purchased this book, nor would I have sent it to CGC, had I known it was missing a page.

It seems that the crux of the matter is the amount of time I took to notice the error. In retrospect, I should have counted the pages when I initially received the book. I now understand that fully, so I would appreciate it if people would stop telling me this. And I clearly stated in my original post that I was partially responsible for the problem. 

"I will fully admit that I am partially to blame for this problem. I should have taken the time to open the book and count the pages. This was a terrible mistake, and it is one that I will never repeat. However, I don't think that I should shoulder all the blame for this problem. If the seller had informed me that the book was missing a page, I would have never bought it."

I just don't want to go into every transaction expecting the seller to have made a mistake or that the seller is being dishonest. I have made many friends here, and I often ask them for their advice. If I trust someone enough to ask for their advice, shouldn't I also trust them to disclose any possible flaws in a book they are selling? Hypothetically speaking, that is.

I'm curious about one thing: Are you now or have you ever been in a leadership role? 

The reason I ask is because the leaders I've liked and respected all had one thing in common: They never attempted to shift any blame onto someone else. They immediately took full responsibility for any blunders even when it wasn't actually their fault.

As one of the senior members of my work team, I use this strategy whenever something goes wrong in my area, and I've also used it in every business transaction I've been involved in over the years. Believe me, I've gained much more than I've lost...  

 

 

[Robot Man]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:53 AM, The Lions Den said:

I'm curious about one thing: Are you now or have you ever been in a leadership role? 

The reason I ask is because the leaders I've liked and respected all had one thing in common: They never attempted to shift any blame onto someone else. They immediately took full responsibility for any blunders even when it wasn't actually their fault.

As one of the senior members of my work team, I use this strategy whenever something goes wrong in my area, and I've also used it in every business transaction I've been involved in over the years. Believe me, I've gained much more than I've lost...  

 

 

Oh, this post reminds me how glad I’m retired. Politics… 

[Robot Man]

I was/am an “artist” a graphic designer. I loved my job and was very good at it. But I had a boss and others who really had no talent or much to bring to the table other than to take credit for other’s work and “kiss the ring”. Professional “meeting goers”. I am pretty direct and have no time for games. I actually turned down promotions. I knew I wouldn’t last long if I did. I learned how to play the game to my advantage. Never a regret and glad to be rid of corporate life…

[Bird]

On 5/8/2022 at 1:08 PM, Robot Man said:

You don’t last long here if you are sloppy or lazy

I take exception to that offense.

[evilskip]

On 5/8/2022 at 12:08 PM, Robot Man said:

 eBay is full of sellers who don’t know or care to accurately grade a book. Many never look inside. Are they trying to “cheat” you? Maybe, but I chalk it up to laziness and sloppy selling overall. Always read the description, look at the pictures. Check feedback and see what else they are selling. You shouldn’t have to ask questions but sometimes you do. Trust no one but your self. And if you have a problem, contact the seller right away.

 

This. I've had a couple of ebay sellers tell me that they don't check the books for missing pages, cut outs etc as they "don't have the time", especially if it isn't a "major" book or a key. Sadly the burden falls upon the buyer to make sure if the book is or isn't complete.

I have looked through a book, left positive feedback and a couple of weeks later have found a missing coupon or panel when reading it. That's on me. But I tend not to buy books on ebay that are over $50 unless it is a seller I've dealt with before.

[Axe Elf]

On 5/8/2022 at 12:53 PM, The Lions Den said:

I'm curious about one thing: Are you now or have you ever been in a leadership role? 

The reason I ask is because the leaders I've liked and respected all had one thing in common: They never attempted to shift any blame onto someone else. They immediately took full responsibility for any blunders even when it wasn't actually their fault.

As one of the senior members of my work team, I use this strategy whenever something goes wrong in my area, and I've also used it in every business transaction I've been involved in over the years. Believe me, I've gained much more than I've lost...  

There's a book by Jim Collins called "Good to Great" which made kind of a splash in business management circles about 20 years ago in which that attribute was cited as one of the reasons for "good" companies making the leap to "great"--leadership that assigns credit "out the window" (to others) and looks "in the mirror" (to oneself) to assign responsibility.

[Math Teacher]

On 5/8/2022 at 12:53 PM, The Lions Den said:

I'm curious about one thing: Are you now or have you ever been in a leadership role? 

The reason I ask is because the leaders I've liked and respected all had one thing in common: They never attempted to shift any blame onto someone else. They immediately took full responsibility for any blunders even when it wasn't actually their fault.

As one of the senior members of my work team, I use this strategy whenever something goes wrong in my area, and I've also used it in every business transaction I've been involved in over the years. Believe me, I've gained much more than I've lost...  

 

 

Well, I was the head coach of two high school sports, but I don't know if you consider that a leadership role. And you're correct, I always took all the blame myself. "I put the wrong girls on that relay team." or "The reason that we didn't have a good meet was I made the team practice too hard this week." I used a technique that I learned from my college cross country coach: Praise in public, criticize in private.

I removed a bunch of drivel that had nothing to do with @The Lions Den's advice.

This was good advice, and I try to incorporate into my actions in the future.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Math Teacher

[djpinkpanther67]

At the OP, this falls on your shoulders entirely. Had you properly inspected the book when you bought it, you (hypothetically speaking of course) would have caught the defect and been able to return it within the seller’s return policy window.

 

[buttock]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:48 AM, zzutak said:

This is a specious argument.  This is a transaction between two parties, not three.  Your counterparty may or may not feel obliged to stand behind his/her sale, but his/her response as a seller is 100% on him/her.  Responsible adults do not attempt to shift blame. 

I had the exact same thing happen to me recently.  I sold a book raw that was certified a year later by the buyer and was missing pages (weird pg number count).  I apologized immediately and made the buyer whole in whatever way he felt most comfortable.  
 

As a collector, I know how much it sucks to have a disappointing transaction on a book you're really excited to get.  For that reason, I don't want anyone else to have to feel that same disappointment.  
 

But 9 months is a long time, and I can see the seller making the case that a fair window has passed.