Will CGC be more open to grading older square cut Pokémon cards now that the scissor-cut test sheet Charizard has been graded? 2 2

[PichuCollector]

In October last year I asked if I could grade one of the grail pieces of my collection: a square cut holofoil Neo Genesis Pichu card. Nobody in the hobby that I've spoken to has ever heard of a Neo Genesis holofoil sheet making its way out into the public, and it's one of only 6 holofoil Neo Genesis square cut cards to have surfaced. The reason I want it encapsulated with CGC is both for protection and so I can store it alongside my other graded Pichu cards.

I was told that you no longer grade Wizards of the Coast Pokémon unless it can be proven that it was cut in the factory.

Less than two weeks ago you graded the "extremely rare" test print Charizard (https://www.cgccards.com/news/article/10283/test-print-charizard/). This is a card which is known to have been cut from a holofoil test sheet some time between 2008 and 2012 - the owner of the cut up sheet made no attempt to cut the cards in a neat way, and the cards (including a few other Charizard cards) were all sold off individually for between $30 and $50. This square cut Charizard is a Wizards of the Coast Pokémon which is known to have been cut up from a sheet by someone outside of the factory and unrelated to Wizards of the Coast.

Yet despite being actively against grading Wizards and Media Factory square cut cards, you happily graded this one.

This card has already appeared for sale on eBay, less than 2 weeks after your article was written, with a reserve in the tens of thousands, using your article as a selling point. It wasn't graded for protection or so the owner could cherish it in their collection or proudly display it in its new CGC case - it was instead graded to make a quick buck, and your article has only served to inflate its value. Meanwhile owners of other square cut Wizards of the Coast cards who want them encapsulated to keep in their collections are unable to submit those cards to you because of reasons like "likely NFC".

This has left a bit of a sour taste for those of us with older Pokémon cards that we want encapsulated, and I figure now is probably the best time to open up a new discussion about the matter.

I don't know if my square cut Pichu card was cut by a Wizards employee, at the Wizards factory or in some guy's basement with his toenail scissors, but what I do know is that it's one of fewer known examples to exist than this Charizard card and on top of that is cut a lot cleaner.

Your grading of this card goes against your unwillingness to grade other older square cut Pokémon cards, and presents a strange bias. I'm not like the submitter of the Charizard card - I'm not wanting to grade my card for a quick flip. I'm instead wanting to protect my card and proudly display it in a CGC case alongside the other cards in my collection.

Will CGC be more open to grading older square cut Pokémon cards now that the scissor-cut test Charizard has been graded?

Edit: I did some digging and it looks like one guy back in 2009 had not 1, not 2, but 10 of these test sheets: https://pokegym.net/community/index.php?threads/pokemon-test-sheet-older-than-1998-1st-edtion-cards.106023/. That's at least 60 of these Charizard cards if all 10 were cut up. Yet not a single Neo Genesis holofoil sheet is known to exist.

Edit 2: Here's that PokéGym thread with working images: https://web.archive.org/web/20090802160943/http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106023

This picture is a different sheet to the one your news story shared as it's missing the color bar down the side. This is a square cut card which originates from a sheet which had multiple copies leaked out to the public. My Pichu is the only known example of its kind and we've never seen a Neo Genesis holofoil sheet surface. By all accounts this would make my Pichu card here rarer than this Charizard - so why should this Charizard get preferential treatment?

Sorry if this has turned into a bit of a rant, I just feel a bit let down by CGC.

Edited June 25, 2022 by PichuCollector

[CGC Mike]

Hello

Our current stance on WotC square cuts is to not grade them barring a few exceptions. Anything that is a Test Print can be certified as these are incredibly esoteric items that historically were not either cut individually or when cut, did not have the corner cutting process employed. As many Test Prints are not cut using the traditional method either internally or not, we consider the cutting to be inclusive in the term Test Print.

For normal set cards that are square cut, like the Pichu above, we always meet these cards with skepticism as several WotC era sheets do exists. For this particular set, Neo Genesis, we agree this is a set with far less info known about sheets and we would be willing to do more asking around top community experts to gauge their opinion, but again we are extremely apprehensive in grading them either Factory or Non-Factory Cut. Sheets cut outside the factory with a high level process are virtually indistinguishable from their factory cut counterparts, particularly ones with some edge and corner wear. Several of these sets saw different corner cutting processes during their print runs and while we are compiling data on this, we are not comfortable at this time to make the determination.

Mike

[PichuCollector]

On 6/27/2022 at 12:57 PM, CGC Mike said:

For this particular set, Neo Genesis, we agree this is a set with far less info known about sheets and we would be willing to do more asking around top community experts to gauge their opinion, but again we are extremely apprehensive in grading them either Factory or Non-Factory Cut.

Hey Mike, is there any update on this?

[CGC Mike]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:27 PM, PichuCollector said:

Hey Mike, is there any update on this?

Sorry, I have not heard of any update at this time.

Mike

[PichuCollector]

On 10/6/2022 at 1:32 AM, CGC Mike said:

Sorry, I have not heard of any update at this time.

Mike

CGC have now graded 7 square cut unlimited Neo Genesis cards: a Lugia, Typhlosion, Azumarill, Jumpluff, Bellossom, Kingdra and Togetic.

The only other known square cut Neo Genesis card aside from my Pichu pictured earlier in the thread is a Steelix which sold on eBay back in 2020.

Notice that none of the cards here are duplicates. I don't know what WotC provenance this guy had on these (as I'm fairly certain they were bought from a guy on Reddit back in June last year), but I'm confident my Pichu and the above Steelix originated from the same seller as these now-graded cards.

Can I now send my Pichu card in for encapsulation with you guys?

[CGC Mike]

On 1/5/2023 at 8:01 PM, PichuCollector said:

Can I now send my Pichu card in for encapsulation with you guys?

Customer service is now answering questions in the Ask CGC sections.  @MattM CS  or another customer service employee usually checks in each morning and will be able to answer your question.

Mike

[MattM CS]

Hello @PichuCollector,

I have sent this to our grading team to review. Thank you for your patience.

[PichuCollector]

Hey @MattM CS, any update on this?

I've just seen the news about your UK office accepting CGC submissions, and as I'm in the UK I'd love to take this opportunity to send this card and several others your way if I can.

[KaileeS CS]

Hello @PichuCollector,

Matt M forwarded me the response from the grading team on this. They are still standing by that we would need provenance provided to be able to grade WOTC square cut cards. Unfortunately, they did not mention what type of proof would be required in this situation. 

Also, yes! We did officially open the UK office for TCG grading. You may read more about the opening and submitting your cards HERE. 

Please let us know if you need anything further. Thank you!

[PichuCollector]

Hey @KaileeS CS @MattM CS, I've spoken to the submitter of the 6 Neo Genesis cards you've graded and they told me that the evidence they provided was from someone who claimed to be awarded these cards as a promotional gift. However they're not wanting to share any further details with me as that person apparently has more square-cut cards which they're planning on buying from them in future - this effectively means they have monopoly over square-cut cards that you'll be grading because they have this connection, which strikes me as completely bias.

I feel like there's a lot of strong evidence I've provided here which you're ignoring because I don't have a friend on the inside. This situation is really putting me off submitting any cards to you guys as it feels incredibly unfair that anyone with such a connection gets a free pass whilst genuine collectors like myself who only want cards graded for the sake of encapsulation have to struggle to prove our cards' worth.

So as one last-ditch effort to try to convince you to grade a card that I never plan on selling and was hoping I could house in a CGC case:

1. There is no evidence to suggest my Pichu card was hand-cut from a sheet outside of a factory, because...
2. No Neo Genesis holofoil sheets have ever surfaced (see https://pokemuseum.weebly.com/uncut-sheets.html);
3. No other square-cut Neo Genesis Pichu cards have ever surfaced;
4. No duplicates of any of the holofoil Neo Genesis cards have ever surfaced.

If you're firm on your stance that you cannot grade this card I'll stop posting and take my business elsewhere.

Edited January 27, 2023 by PichuCollector

[MattM CS]

Hello @PichuCollector,

I am sorry for the inconvenience. At this time our stance remains the same. We truly appreciate your eagerness and research put in to try to have your card encapsulated but at this time, this is the stance of our head grading team. If you have any other questions, please let us know. 

[PaulS.]

Hi @PichuCollector,

I apologize for the confusion on this. We will grade your card as their are no known sheets of this set. Please submit it again for grading.

 

Thank you,

Paul