New Overstreet out today, haven't gotten my copy yet... 3 3

[tth2]

On 7/23/2022 at 1:38 PM, Robot Man said:

The book is so full of history and information. It is an invaluable tool for this. Forget the prices. There is no other reference guide to comics that even comes close to it and you can just pull it off the shelf for reference.

I agree the Guide is a useful reference, just not for prices.

My post was in response to Lou Fine's post where he expressed concern that Overstreet's jacking up of prices on hot books that had been going for massive multiples over Guide would kill off the momentum in those books as their multiple to Guide started to compress, which he seems to indicate is what happened several decades ago. 

My point is that most people don't care about Guide prices today, ergo they don't care about what multiple of Guide those prices are, and therefore compression of Guide multiples is unlikely to have the same effect today as it did back in the old days.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Overstreet's big hikes indicate that we've reached a high water mark in prices.  It's kind of like the Business Week effect--when Business Week publishes a cover about some stock market phenomenon, it's usually time to do the opposite.

[divad]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:54 PM, lou_fine said:

They most certainly DID as I believe they raised the price for this year's edition of the Overstreet Guide by 20% or thereabouts.    

Do you guys get any kickbacks on that? 

[Primetime]

Got my copy. Great job swiping Bob’s classic photo of him reading a Batman 9 
 

https://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1012?ArticleID=263232

Edited July 24, 2022 by Primetime

[lou_fine]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:51 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

As much as I appreciate the annual Overstreet Price Guide, it's history, forecasts and continued symbolic value to the community, as a reference guide for current values taking critical sales criteria into account it's the epitome of mediocrity. 

I would tend to agree with you here as there has always been nothing but constant and ongoing complaints with regards to Overstrret's valuation model ever since his first one came out way back in 1970 and it was then being referred to as the Overprice Guide.

Has anybody ever consider the possibility that Overstreet might actually have a bigger agenda with his price guide than just trying to report on only the current values in the marketplace?  I somehow tend to think that he has one eye on the current values and the other eye also on future values and where he wants them to go going forward.  

To each their own, but I would much rather have Overstreet's slow and conservative consolidation approach as opposed to what many of you seem to want in terms of the Gareb Shamus approach in terms of "get down on your knees and pray that the hyped to the hilt and sometimes futuristic fantasy valuations" in the guide will hold going forward which in almost all cases do not as we found out in the 90's implosion.    

Okay seriously, the guide is just a guide and definitely not as important in today's interconnected world as we already have other more up-to-date applications such as GPA, GoCollect, Heritage & CC archives, eBay results FWIW, etc. if we really want to get a better idea of the actual current value for our books.  I don't really need or want Overstreet valuations bouncing up and down all over the place trying to catch the flavor of the day or all of the day trading flipping activity that speculators are partaking in.  Any bets that if the guide had a format like that over the past 50 plus years, the current strong and seemingly healthy vintage collectible comic book marketplace that we have now would be completely different.    

[lou_fine]

On 7/22/2022 at 5:23 AM, tth2 said:

Does it worry anyone that Bob finally catching on to the massive rises in the market might be the ultimate bearish sign?

Not really as the massive rises in his valuations were very selective with the other 98% of his guide increases being the same old, same old.  

Since YOU seem to be an excellent prognosticator at timing the market though, the ultimate bearish sign that we should all take is you starting to unload your personal collection.    

 

On 7/23/2022 at 5:04 AM, tth2 said:

I honestly can't remember the last time I referred to the Guide to determine a price.

I most certainly hope NOT since the valuations in the Overstreet Guide tops out at NM- 9.2, and as we all know here, you generally buy only books in grades higher than that.  And as Overstreet has staed in the past, his guide does not cover those nosebleed condition levels due to the extreme volatility that take place when you are flying so high.  

[Crowzilla]

On 7/24/2022 at 1:48 PM, lou_fine said:

I most certainly hope NOT since the valuations in the Overstreet Guide tops out at NM- 9.2, and as we all know here, you generally buy only books in grades higher than that.  And as Overstreet has staed in the past, his guide does not cover those nosebleed condition levels due to the extreme volatility that take place when you are flying so high.  

Are you trying to suggest that we only think guide is out of place because we are looking at the top prices and comparing them to the highest prices paid?

Ok, what is "Good" guide on say Bat 1, Blue Bolt 105, Famous Funnies 213, and Seven Seas 4. Those prices must be right around FMV

[lou_fine]

On 7/24/2022 at 9:00 PM, Crowzilla said:

Are you trying to suggest that we only think guide is out of place because we are looking at the top prices and comparing them to the highest prices paid?

Nah............just saying that as we all should know here, our fellow boardie here (i.e. tth2) has only the highest graded CGC 9.4's, 9.6's, or 9.8's in his personal collection and would never ever let one of those toxic Skid Row 9.2's dregs (let alone anything even lower) come near any of his other books.  

On 7/24/2022 at 9:00 PM, Crowzilla said:

Ok, what is "Good" guide on say Bat 1, Blue Bolt 105, Famous Funnies 213, and Seven Seas 4. Those prices must be right around FMV

Not sure about the Good price in the marketplace for any of these books, but did noticed this FF 213 in tonight's Heritage Sunday Auction:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/science-fiction/famous-funnies-213-eastern-color-1954-cgc-fn-60-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122230-17289.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115

Not a Good copy, but a Fine copy that sold for $12K or something like 20X the old guide condition value, but only a mere 9.25X the new guide's condition value.  See, and you guys said that old Bob was out of touch with the marketplace which is clearly not the case as he's got the multiple back down to only single digits again. Clearly, still lots of bankable increases to draw upon for his future guides when it comes to the Frazetta Famous Funnies run going forward as these books have not even hit the peak of the curve on the "Overstreet Valuation Life Cycle Model" yet.  

Edited July 25, 2022 by lou_fine

[Crowzilla]

On 7/25/2022 at 1:14 AM, lou_fine said:

...See, and you guys said that old Bob was out of touch with the marketplace which is clearly not the case as he's got the multiple back down to only single digits again. Clearly, still lots of bankable increases to draw upon for his future guides when it comes to the Frazetta Famous Funnies run going forward as these books have not even hit the peak of the curve on the "Overstreet Valuation Life Cycle Model" yet.  

I wonder if Bob is actually doing the pricing on the Guide anymore. It's been 27 years since he sold his collection and the Guide itself to Geppi, and while I'm sure he sat in the captain's chair for several years after, it wouldn't surprise me if he is taking a much less active roll at this stage. I don't believe Ted is at Hake's any longer, and it's not hard to imagine Bob just being a guy in some photos on the wall.

[Cat-Man_America]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:36 PM, lou_fine said:

I would tend to agree with you here as there has always been nothing but constant and ongoing complaints with regards to Overstrret's valuation model ever since his first one came out way back in 1970 and it was then being referred to as the Overprice Guide.

Has anybody ever consider the possibility that Overstreet might actually have a bigger agenda with his price guide than just trying to report on only the current values in the marketplace?  I somehow tend to think that he has one eye on the current values and the other eye also on future values and where he wants them to go going forward.  

To each their own, but I would much rather have Overstreet's slow and conservative consolidation approach as opposed to what many of you seem to want in terms of the Gareb Shamus approach in terms of "get down on your knees and pray that the hyped to the hilt and sometimes futuristic fantasy valuations" in the guide will hold going forward which in almost all cases do not as we found out in the 90's implosion.    

Okay seriously, the guide is just a guide and definitely not as important in today's interconnected world as we already have other more up-to-date applications such as GPA, GoCollect, Heritage & CC archives, eBay results FWIW, etc. if we really want to get a better idea of the actual current value for our books.  I don't really need or want Overstreet valuations bouncing up and down all over the place trying to catch the flavor of the day or all of the day trading flipping activity that speculators are partaking in.  Any bets that if the guide had a format like that over the past 50 plus years, the current strong and seemingly healthy vintage collectible comic book marketplace that we have now would be completely different.    

The things that Overstreet's Guide does well continue to make it highly relevant in those areas, albeit seemingly out of touch in others.  I appreciate the Guide's place as an annual assessment of values based on a conservative appraisal of the market and don't see it as competing with or a replacement for up-to-date sales criteria provided by auction houses and apps.  It holds a very important status in that regard.  What Overstreet's Guide could do much better is provide pedigree evaluation guidance.  IOW, what would make this guide more useful would be providing good parameters for collectors to consider beyond grade in assessing current values.

 

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 7/25/2022 at 12:14 AM, lou_fine said:

Nah............just saying that as we all should know here, our fellow boardie here (i.e. tth2) has only the highest graded CGC 9.4's, 9.6's, or 9.8's in his personal collection and would never ever let one of those toxic Skid Row 9.2's dregs (let alone anything even lower) come near any of his other books.  

I’ve long tried to parse @tth2’s collection by his comments, and thought he was an OA guy.  

[tth2]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:54 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I’ve long tried to parse @tth2’s collection by his comments, and thought he was an OA guy.  

I'm a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma! 

[djzombi]

I've always found Overstreet helpful as a speedy reference to artists, key books, final issues of a run, and more recently a guide to what the heck volume of a book I have when I pick up , say, a Daredevil #4 that was printed after the year 2000.  

I usually pick up the Hero Initiative cover to support the charity, but I kind of need that EC cover.  I'm torn.  I wish I could afford both   

[AndyFish]

I only buy one every other year or so but always a hardcover-- I hate paperbacks-- EC all the way for me this time, it was a no brainer- if the Black Terror had been a Schomburg or even Schomburg esque I'd have been all over it- I really didn't like the one offered-- is he catching that bomb or getting ready to throw it backwards?  

The full color covers throughout make the whole thing pop so the price increase is totally fine with me.   As for the app, they were doing demos of it at SDCC and it's much more than just a PDF copy of the guide-- I'm currently using CLZ but I'm going to drop it in favor of the Overstreet one, I was happy with what I saw.  They offer a two week free trial if you're on the fence.

Edited July 25, 2022 by AndyFish
corrected typo

[Primetime]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:45 AM, AndyFish said:

I only buy one every other year or so but always a hardcover-- I hate paperbacks-- EC all the way for me this time, it was a no brainer- if the Black Terror had been a Schomburg or even Schomburg esque I'd have been all over it- I really didn't like the one offered-- is he catching that bomb or getting ready to throw it backwards?  

The full color covers throughout make the whole thing pop so the price increase is totally fine with me.   As for the app, they were doing demos of it at SDCC and it's much more than just a PDF copy of the guide-- I'm currently using CLZ but I'm going to drop it in favor of the Overstreet one, I was happy with what I saw.  They offer a two week free trial if you're on the fence.

What does Ted think of the new Overstreet app? 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Primetime

[RSFoster]

I use CLZ too-- I'll have to check out the OS app.  Got the Black Terror Cover, but I'm a golden age lover.

[AndyFish]

On 7/25/2022 at 2:36 PM, Primetime said:

What does Ted think of the new Overstreet app? 

Vanliew??  Guy doesn't even know how to use his phone, never mind an app for comics collectors. ;)

[Primetime]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:44 AM, AndyFish said:

Vanliew??  Guy doesn't even know how to use his phone, never mind an app for comics collectors. ;)

 that’s why I asked 

[lou_fine]

On 7/24/2022 at 11:03 PM, Crowzilla said:

I wonder if Bob is actually doing the pricing on the Guide anymore. It's been 27 years since he sold his collection and the Guide itself to Geppi, and while I'm sure he sat in the captain's chair for several years after, it wouldn't surprise me if he is taking a much less active roll at this stage. I don't believe Ted is at Hake's any longer, and it's not hard to imagine Bob just being a guy in some photos on the wall.

To tell you the honest truth, that certainly did cross my mind when I saw some of the dramatic price increases for certain select books in this year's edition of the guide.  Although there were also some big increases in last year's guide, clearly nothing compared to this year with select issues in a wide swath of titles.  Then I took a closer look at the books (at least for the GA books) which had these high double digit or even triple digit percentage increases and even with these new higher prices, the books were actually selling at even much higher price points than that.  

As for just being some guy in a photo or just having your name on a book, I believe that's a valid point and even at that, it still takes up a lot of your time and energy, especially when you are already pusing into your 80's.    As evident by Gemstone attaching his name to various Overstreet Guides on Collecting Movie Posters, Collecting Concert Posters, Collecting Video Games, Collecting Tabletop Games, Collecting Horror, and what have you along with his various related ancillary guides on his two major passions, comic books and Indian arrowheads.  Don't think he's had to do too many of those this past year, so maybe he simply had a lot more time with the Covid lockdown and all that to pay more attention to what's been happening in the comic book marketplace.  

Then again, I just took a look at some of the price increases on the movie related hype books from the late SA and BA time periods.  Now, some of those were definitely very un-Overstreet like in terms of going up by triple digit percentage increases with some by quite a few thousand dollars.  Especially when a lot of these new guide valuations are pretty much already approaching their FMV ceiling and a few even at slightly higher guide valuations than the FMV's posted in the comic book pricing tracking websites.  

Almost makes me wonder if it was a two-prong approach with Bob maintaining control over the GA and early SA time periods, with a lot of the work for the later time periods being passed down to the next generation.  After all, one of the keys for a successful business is to always plan for the future including succession planning, and especially as we all know, none of us are getting any younger as the years go by.    

Edited July 26, 2022 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:45 AM, AndyFish said:

The full color covers throughout make the whole thing pop so the price increase is totally fine with me.  

Yes indeed, as the full color covers at the top of every right hand page as you flip through the book to find what you want is absolutely stunning and definitely the way that comic book covers were meant to be seen.     

[AndyFish]

I've always hated the "cheap" look of those BW covers throughout.