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C2E2 Variant Drama
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Started by fastballspecial,

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Axelrod

Axelrod

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On 8/15/2022 at 11:54 AM, Prince Namor said:

It's interesting to listen to people say, "I'll never submit another book to them again!"

Why? They're the same company you've BEEN using. You just saw something you hadn't previously realized. 

I mean, you're answering your own question.  You see something and now you don't want to do business with that company any more.  The fact your personal denial of business has no effect on the company's bottom line isn't really the point.  People are vegetarian for ethical reasons despite knowing that their individual decision not to buy a hamburger has no impact at all on McDonalds. 

Some people just don't want to deal with shady people/companies - even if the people/companies aren't even shady/unethical 100% of the time (I mean, that would be something if they were).  CGC isn't fudging all the grades they give out.  Just the ones for the "prominent members of the collecting community," I imagine. 

Like, I won't ever buy from a Heritage Auction because the owner is a crook.  He could care less.  

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toro

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On 8/15/2022 at 11:54 AM, Prince Namor said:

Well... some people aren't surprised at all. And I'm not trying to be flippant here, just realistic...

CGC is just like anything in our society today that services the public. And that is, that 'servicing the public' is a front for making money. That may seem obvious, but the amount of people, myself included, who sometimes think, "I thought CGC was there to protect us from this!", are missing the point...

They are owned by a company and that company's overall purpose is to make more money. And more money and more money.

Long ago McDonald's figured out ways to cut corners year after year and to save money to improve their profits. Long ago News Channels learned how to lead with what bleeds and give two chits about human interest stories - THAT was what brought in viewers and thus advertising. Long ago people figured out how to sucker people and draw the grift out for as much as they could. Hookers learned to wear costume jewelry instead of the real thing. 

None of that is any different here.

And THIS hobby especially DESERVES it.

We've fallen for trick after trick after trick for almost the length of the hobby... 'This is the greatest story ever told!", "This is a guaranteed collectors item!" "It must be great it has a foil cover!" "This is the next big thing!" "This is the NEW #1!" "OMG! Wolverine's Dead!" "Captain America is a communist!" Blah blah blah.

Keep chasing that dangling carrot, and it's hard to blame the guy who strings it up. 

 

And this is no different. 

Somebody at CGC must've figured a formula that told them the answer:

# of Golden Age collector's x the average age of death divided by # of modern submissions x the depths they'll go to turn a profit.

It's pretty easy to figure out who won.

 

It's interesting to listen to people say, "I'll never submit another book to them again!"

Why? They're the same company you've BEEN using. You just saw something you hadn't previously realized. 

Will the market still react more positively toward their slabs grade? Depends on the book.

Are you happy with what they do for YOU? 

You've accepted those horrid Newton Rings vs a better slab at Brand X, will THIS situation really be the deal breaker?

 

I'm not taking their side. The discussion needed to happen. I just don't see them backing off. The attitude seems to be, "How dare you tell us how we can and can NOT make money." I mean really, it seems to be, "We're not even listening." CGC isn't done making money in creative and questionable ways and from the looks of TATs, people aren't done using the service. 

I guess it hurts for some of us to think, we're a very, very, very, very small voice in the world of CGC. Even with some of the heavy hitters we have here. They're not even listening to THEM.

For the vast majority of the hobby this won't even be a blip - even the young influencers condemning it online will be on to the next big thing tomorrow - GA and SA buyers will still be like, "I still overall trust it more", and the day will just go on. 

"Hookers learned to wear costume jewelry instead of the real thing. "

Seriously?  Oh man, I am so disillusioned.  :whatthe:

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Prince Namor

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On 8/15/2022 at 12:20 PM, Axelrod said:

I mean, you're answering your own question. 

I didn't have an actual question for myself on it. This isn't about ME. 

On 8/15/2022 at 12:20 PM, Axelrod said:

You see something and now you don't want to do business with that company any more.  The fact your personal denial of business has no effect on the company's bottom line isn't really the point.  People are vegetarian for ethical reasons despite knowing that their individual decision not to buy a hamburger has no impact at all on McDonalds. 

This has absolutely no effect on what my current relationship with CGC is right now. I'm not saying I won't do business with them. That's what others have said. 

On 8/15/2022 at 12:20 PM, Axelrod said:

Some people just don't want to deal with shady people/companies - even if the people/companies aren't even shady/unethical 100% of the time (I mean, that would be something if they were).  CGC isn't fudging all the grades they give out.  Just the ones for the "prominent members of the collecting community," I imagine. 

Like, I won't ever buy from a Heritage Auction because the owner is a crook.  He could care less.  

Unfortunately the history of this hobby is: 'Cool books' > 'Ethics'. 

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Jimmy Linguini

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On 8/14/2022 at 10:21 PM, southern cross said:

Question.

When Marvel reprints Ultimate fallout issue 4 and a new artist does the cover the new artist is paid by Marvel.

Does the original creative team that worked inside the book get royalties for the $3.99 times 3000 print run?

If yes then what percentage were the original creative team inside the book paid when the book was re-released and the price was $85- $100 a copy?

Just a thought!


Marvel is selling the book to the retailer for $3.99 minus their retailer discount. The creative team has never received a cut from anything but that original number.

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Buzzetta

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On 8/15/2022 at 11:54 AM, Prince Namor said:

It's interesting to listen to people say, "I'll never submit another book to them again!"

Why? They're the same company you've BEEN using. You just saw something you hadn't previously realized. 

Will the market still react more positively toward their slabs grade? Depends on the book.

Are you happy with what they do for YOU? 

You've accepted those horrid Newton Rings vs a better slab at Brand X, will THIS situation really be the deal breaker?

 

I'm not taking their side. The discussion needed to happen. I just don't see them backing off. The attitude seems to be, "How dare you tell us how we can and can NOT make money." I mean really, it seems to be, "We're not even listening." CGC isn't done making money in creative and questionable ways and from the looks of TATs, people aren't done using the service. 

I guess it hurts for some of us to think, we're a very, very, very, very small voice in the world of CGC. Even with some of the heavy hitters we have here. They're not even listening to THEM.

For the vast majority of the hobby this won't even be a blip - even the young influencers condemning it online will be on to the next big thing tomorrow - GA and SA buyers will still be like, "I still overall trust it more", and the day will just go on. 

 

On 8/15/2022 at 12:20 PM, Axelrod said:

I mean, you're answering your own question.  You see something and now you don't want to do business with that company any more.  The fact your personal denial of business has no effect on the company's bottom line isn't really the point.  People are vegetarian for ethical reasons despite knowing that their individual decision not to buy a hamburger has no impact at all on McDonalds. 

Some people just don't want to deal with shady people/companies - even if the people/companies aren't even shady/unethical 100% of the time (I mean, that would be something if they were).  CGC isn't fudging all the grades they give out.  Just the ones for the "prominent members of the collecting community," I imagine. 

Like, I won't ever buy from a Heritage Auction because the owner is a crook.  He could care less.  

Axelrod is right.  When you say, "I've had enough", you are not doing it make an impact on the company in so much as you are making a personal decision based on your own threshold of what is acceptable.   However, if you influence others to follow your example then that is the proverbial icing on the cake.

I stopped submitting books and cancelled my auto-renewal when I saw all the quality control issues and inconsistent grading.  My thoughts were to let CGC get their house in order and let them make mistakes and learn from those mistakes with someone else's books.  Don't train your new employees on my books. 

I have a few friends in this hobby that do not participate much on the boards.  I know they have not submitted anything either once they learned why I was not.  Did I get on my soapbox in Union Square advocating people turning away from CGC?  Of course not.  They asked me what I was submitting next and then why I was not submitting.  They then followed suit. 

I am sure that there are many that are sending things into CGC.  However, I am not.  They are free to do what they want.  My breaking point was quality control issues.  For others it is this.

Sounds fine for me.  Sounds fine for them. 

It's not about affecting CGC, I am sure that my contribution to their wallet does not matter.  My decision is about 'me' though as I am sure that other collectors are making decisions based upon their best interests in the matter as well. 

 

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DrunkWooky

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On 8/15/2022 at 10:20 AM, Axelrod said:

I mean, you're answering your own question.  You see something and now you don't want to do business with that company any more.  The fact your personal denial of business has no effect on the company's bottom line isn't really the point.  People are vegetarian for ethical reasons despite knowing that their individual decision not to buy a hamburger has no impact at all on McDonalds. 

Some people just don't want to deal with shady people/companies - even if the people/companies aren't even shady/unethical 100% of the time (I mean, that would be something if they were).  CGC isn't fudging all the grades they give out.  Just the ones for the "prominent members of the collecting community," I imagine. 

Like, I won't ever buy from a Heritage Auction because the owner is a crook.  He could care less.  

I've submitted one comic to CGC ever. I own probably 6? Definitely single digits. I just like raw books better. You can read them. 

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Axelrod

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On 8/15/2022 at 12:28 PM, Prince Namor said:

I didn't have an actual question for myself on it. This isn't about ME. 

This has absolutely no effect on what my current relationship with CGC is right now. I'm not saying I won't do business with them. That's what others have said. 

Sorry, I didn't mean "you" personally.  It was more a rhetorical "you."  Because you seemed to be expressing confusion about why someone who "saw something they previously hadn't realized" concerning a company they had been doing business with might choose to stop doing business with that company.  

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Buzzetta

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On 8/15/2022 at 1:00 PM, DrunkWooky said:

“We really don’t have anything to do with this issue” (Copyright holders would beg to differ in their court filings. )

Yes, I was surprised but Lego has been pretty successful in getting eBay to remove all the counterfeit and bootleg lego product off site. 

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awakeintheashes

awakeintheashes

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On 8/15/2022 at 12:42 PM, The Meta said:

A company that has a CEO that publicly says Bro, is a company I want nothing to do with 

Exactly what I was going to say. I’ll never sell on there after seeing that one word in that sentence 

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