C2E2 Variant Drama 24 24

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:01 PM, vas'rod said:

If you want to read it, sure... but if you're buying graded comics the grade needs to mean something... and apparently, if I understood all this drama correctly,  GCG was grading stamped plastic covers as comics... so they now will decide to grade it was a comic and look at the comic too? what happened before they missed there was a comic stapled inside the plastic... this really doesn't make any sense to me...  

What I said was tounge in cheek, but rings true for those few now that it has switched to green label. I went on to explain more my personal view on that page of posts. But I don't think that cgc was particularly paid more than any recent submission fee, so it's not less than what has been spouted, a weak moment in grading policies that too.

Still cgc revealed that that them, black flag and Crain had set it up before hand if something was possible. Black flag chose not to disclose that deal and they sold for $1,500?

No cgc and Crain are offering a free signing to the now qualified label for a signature series as well

Black flag who may or may not be refunded cgc fees due to policy correction is now mysteriously silent laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM

[CGC Mike]

On 8/24/2022 at 2:59 PM, Atom Man said:

Wondering what deranged comedy CGCMike is going to deceminate (or urinate) on us all next because unfortunately for him he is the face of this organization of consumate douchenozzles.

You forgot to mention that my face is handsome. 

[FFB]

On 8/24/2022 at 4:43 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Really?

The book was Universal CGC 9.9 at the time

Now CGC says whoops....it’s a green label?

I don’t think so.

Black Flag is the one who had (and violated) the Exclusives contract with Marvel that prohibited them from doing this in the first place.  I doubt that CGC knew (or perhaps "realized" is a better word) that Black Flag was doing something unlawful when they made acetate versions.  I don't think CGC would have willingly gone along with the plan if they realized that what Black Flag was doing was illegal, as that would have made CGC potentially liable for aiding and abetting copyright infringement (which has civil AND criminal liability).  

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:18 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

What I said was tounge in cheek, but rings true for those few now that it has switched to green label. I went on to explain more my personal view on that page of posts. But I don't think that cgc was particularly paid more than any recent submission fee, so it's not less than what has been spouted, a weak moment in grading policies that too.

Still cgc revealed that that them, black flag and Crain had set it up before hand if something was possible. Black flag chose not to disclose that deal and they sold for $1,500?

No cgc and Crain are offering a free signing to the now qualified label for a signature series as well

Black flag who may or may not be refunded cgc fees due to policy correction is now mysteriously silent laughing all the way to the bank.

 

 

On 8/24/2022 at 7:21 PM, FFB said:

Black Flag is the one who had (and violated) the Exclusives contract with Marvel that prohibited them from doing this in the first place.  I doubt that CGC knew (or perhaps "realized" is a better word) that Black Flag was doing something unlawful when they made acetate versions.  I don't think CGC would have willingly gone along with the plan if they realized that what Black Flag was doing was illegal, as that would have made CGC potentially liable for aiding and abetting copyright infringement (which has civil AND criminal liability).  

@vas'rod this too

[troydivision1]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:14 PM, FFB said:

I know it's somewhat poor form to respond to one's own post, but just to add one comment on this point.  I am already seeing certain goofy "influencer" clowns on YouTube speculating that the Universal Label 10 and 9.9s will "sell for a record price" now that CGC isn't giving out blue labels for these books any more.  

While I would hope that the collecting community is too smart for that, my 40+ years in this hobby tells me otherwise.  And when it happens, it's going to create yet another can of worms and scads of YouTube videos and posts about how the books just should have been removed from the census.  

Better to nip it in the bud now.  Just my 2 cents.  

Below is my quote regarding this idea shortly after the 'announcement' from CGC Mike.

On 8/22/2022 at 7:03 PM, Troy.Division said:

Unless the blue labels are recalled (and removed from the census / registry) they will now demand a higher premium with this news.

Marvel controversy + CGC controversy + scarcity = $$$

My question is -
When will CGC learn from their mistakes and hire a PR / Marketing director that handles these very specific vendor related issues (Bad Idea & Black Flag)?

I came to this conclusion based on a book that I own that is now labeled differently (qualified Signature Series) than when I had mine done (all yellow Signature Series).
Asking prices for the book on eBay are insane even with the green / yellow.
Can't imagine what a solid yellow would sell for.

Thus my personal observation / argument that the Universal (blue label) acetate variants will carry a premium over the new qualified labels.

[jsilverjanet]

Some thoughts on the last couple of pages

@greggy whats up with the walls of text bro? What happened to the one sentence posts 

based on the links to whatnot we may need a streaming subforum

and finally, it’s evident that both Marvel and CGC need to have a better set checks and balances to prevent something like this in the future 

while it appears that Marvel has something in place, has CGC created anything to prevent a mistake like this happening again 

based on past history I doubt it 

[mattn792]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:21 PM, FFB said:

Black Flag is the one who had (and violated) the Exclusives contract with Marvel that prohibited them from doing this in the first place.  I doubt that CGC knew (or perhaps "realized" is a better word) that Black Flag was doing something unlawful when they made acetate versions.  I don't think CGC would have willingly gone along with the plan if they realized that what Black Flag was doing was illegal, as that would have made CGC potentially liable for aiding and abetting copyright infringement (which has civil AND criminal liability).  

We’re talking about a company that once gave out pay for grades to “invisible” comics, no way would I dare to make the assumption that CGC wasn’t complicit in the Black Flag fiasco from the start.

Edited August 25, 2022 by mattn792

[wombat]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:21 PM, FFB said:

Black Flag is the one who had (and violated) the Exclusives contract with Marvel that prohibited them from doing this in the first place.  I doubt that CGC knew (or perhaps "realized" is a better word) that Black Flag was doing something unlawful when they made acetate versions.  I don't think CGC would have willingly gone along with the plan if they realized that what Black Flag was doing was illegal, as that would have made CGC potentially liable for aiding and abetting copyright infringement (which has civil AND criminal liability).  

You realize CGC has come out and said they knew exactly what they graded, right? Forget the fact they shouldn't have put this book in a blue label and sold grades on top of that. 

[FFB]

On 8/24/2022 at 5:37 PM, mattn792 said:

We’re talking about a company that once gave out pay for grades to “invisible” comics, no way would I dare to make the assumption that CGC wasn’t complicit in the Black Flag fiasco from the start.

That's not a crime though....

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:35 PM, Troy.Division said:

Below is my quote regarding this idea shortly after the 'announcement' from CGC Mike.

I came to this conclusion based on a book that I own that is now labeled differently (qualified Signature Series) than when I had mine done (all yellow Signature Series).
Asking prices for the book on eBay are insane even with the green / yellow.
Can't imagine what a solid yellow would sell for.

Thus my personal observation / argument that the Universal (blue label) acetate variants will carry a premium over the new qualified labels.

I understand your view, but cgc shouldn't have a say in the secondary market I don't think this implicates them that way, as it wasn't done on purpose for the market. Grading fees and that's it?. That's the whole point that makes their value now, destroy that misstep to reputation or disable the reputation period and down come value.

I am almost positive this wasn't done on purpose, therefore the backtrack had to to be postulated for sure, and hiring someone might help, true!

Yet I don't think cgc has anything to gain in the first place other than grading fees, therefore this misstep and value on the secondary market means that "buy the book not the grade" to be touted more imo

That may devalue safely without ruining a company rep, especially one that doesn't have a lot to gain?

Edited August 25, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

Wasn't on purpose to affect the secondary market, cgc had nothing to gain then

On 8/24/2022 at 7:41 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I understand your view, but cgc shouldn't have a say in the secondary market, I don't think this implicates, as it wasn't done on purpose. That's the whole point that makes their value now, destroy that misstep to reputation or disable the reputperiod and down come value.

I am almost positive this wasn't done on purpose, therefore the cpbacktrack had to to be postulated for sure, and hiring someone might help, true!

Yet I don't think cgc has anything to gain in the first place other than grading fees, therefore this misstep and value on the secondary market means that "buy the book not the grade" to be touted more imo

That may devalue safely without ruining a company rep, especially one that doesn't have a lot to gain?

If you're truly following the money?

Lapse in policies at best in short

[mattn792]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:40 PM, FFB said:

That's not a crime though....

Because that was clearly my point 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:41 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I understand your view, but cgc shouldn't have a say in the secondary market I don't think this implicates them that way, as it wasn't done on purpose for the market. Grading fees and that's it?. That's the whole point that makes their value now, destroy that misstep to reputation or disable the reputation period and down come value.

I am almost positive this wasn't done on purpose, therefore the cpbacktrack had to to be postulated for sure, and hiring someone might help, true!

Yet I don't think cgc has anything to gain in the first place other than grading fees, therefore this misstep and value on the secondary market means that "buy the book not the grade" to be touted more imo

That may devalue safely without ruining a company rep, especially one that doesn't have a lot to gain?

Auto correct almost had me, new tablet

[Ares]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:21 PM, CGC Mike said:

You forgot to mention that my face is handsome. 

its not

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:21 PM, FFB said:

Black Flag is the one who had (and violated) the Exclusives contract with Marvel that prohibited them from doing this in the first place.  I doubt that CGC knew (or perhaps "realized" is a better word) that Black Flag was doing something unlawful when they made acetate versions.  I don't think CGC would have willingly gone along with the plan if they realized that what Black Flag was doing was illegal, as that would have made CGC potentially liable for aiding and abetting copyright infringement (which has civil AND criminal liability).  

Ah...

So Black Flag spooned the bed twice. First by allowing the cool kids to show their celebrity by skipping the line and grabbing bundles of this acetate variant. Second by not getting permission from Marvel  to build it in the first place. 
 

I guess the buyer of the 9.9 can  go after a refund from BF as well.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:37 PM, mattn792 said:

We’re talking about a company that once gave out pay for grades to “invisible” comics, no way would I dare to make the assumption that CGC wasn’t complicit in the Black Flag fiasco from the start.

Ya bare that in mind, plus the fact that we wouldn't know of these if not for customers being jilted to begin with, which also goes back to black flag. Hopefully that soured cgc and or Blackstone to become more familiar with policies.

Think if it had gone on for years and or forced adoption, it could be so much worse

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:58 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Ah...

So Black Flag spooned the bed twice. First by allowing the cool kids to show their celebrity by skipping the line and grabbing bundles of this acetate variant. Second by not getting permission from Marvel  to build it in the first place. 
 

I guess the buyer of the 9.9 can  go after a refund from BF as well.

Lol the customers should join a union and sue black flag.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM

[taro90]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:13 PM, Domo Arigato said:

I'm not watching a four hour YouTube video, and I'm not reading all of the 4,100+ replies in this thread.

Can someone point me to where this was discussed?

 

 

On 8/24/2022 at 6:30 PM, jsilverjanet said:

he starts talking about it around the 55:30 mark. He reads the statements (in a private FB chat group) from the dealer affected. I'm not sure where else that information is posted.

Saw it on Instagram. Here's the short version. In July of 2021, a CBCS exclusive Signature Series Dealer/Facilitator had 7 submissions. The submission to CBCS consisted of a combination of non signed and witnessed signed books to be graded. Apparently, all of the books have now been lost. This is what the Dealer/Facilitator was told by CBCS' president after getting the runaround from CBCS' customer service for months. The CBCS president also mentioned that the reason the books were "missing" or "lost," was that they had sent the books out-of-state to an employee's home, where the employee could logged the books into CBCS' system. Then the employee would reshipped the books back to CBCS' Dallas office for grading. They did this because they were behind with their TAT. There were 367 books in total that were lost, and these were the Dealer/Facilitator's customer's books. I guess that's why Steve B. bailed on them.....

Edited August 25, 2022 by taro90

[thehumantorch]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:56 PM, Ares said:

On 8/24/2022 at 6:21 PM, CGC Mike said:

You forgot to mention that my face is handsome. 

its not

Ares, ouch dude

[mattn792]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:41 PM, szav said:

Hmmm.... Black Flag....Red Flag.....Black Flag....Blackstone....