Please help me understand this Promise Pedigree grade, it hurts my brain. 2 2

[Phill the Governor]

Hey everyone,

I understand grading can be subjective (to a point). But can someone please explain to me how this copy of Detective Comics 166 is a 9.6? With only the few spine stress lines, I could see a 9.6: this book is incredibly sharp. But a dust shadow along the spine and top of the book and a tear on the upper left back cover is acceptable in 9.6?  In addition to the defects that were already present, the inner well of the case has also created a impact crease (and small tear) on the upper back cover, which is unfortunate.

Considering CGC uses the 9.0/9.2/9.4/9.6/9.8/9.9 and 10.0 scale in high grades, because every little defect is important, can anyone lend an opposing opinion how this grade was reached? Can CGC lend an answer of how this grade was reached? I don't believe this grade can be rationalized at all and is fairly damning given the vast difference in price for the next few lower grades down the scale.

Link: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/detective-comics-166-the-promise-collection-pedigree-dc-1950-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7244-93075.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515#

[Robot Man]

A gift grade? 

[lou_fine]

Are we really going to start this whole endless discussion up again?      

Edited February 9, 2023 by lou_fine

[Phill the Governor]

On 2/9/2023 at 1:35 PM, lou_fine said:

Are we really going to start this whole endless discussion up again?      

Forgive my ignorance, was this specific book already brought up?

[comicjack]

A gift of the grading gods 

[lou_fine]

Can't remember now since 

On 2/9/2023 at 10:38 AM, Phill the Governor said:

Forgive my ignorance, was this specific book already brought up?

Can't remember now with regards to this specific book on its own, as there's been questions brought up with regards to the grading on many of the books from this Promise Collection that it's hard to keep track of them all.  

BTW:  SCS damage also occurs after a book has ALREADY been graded.  

Edited February 9, 2023 by lou_fine

[Phill the Governor]

On 2/9/2023 at 1:55 PM, lou_fine said:

Can't remember now with regards to this specific book on its own, as there's been questions brought up with regards to the grading on many of the books from this Promise Collection that it's hard to keep track of them all.  

That's concerning.

On 2/9/2023 at 1:55 PM, lou_fine said:

BTW:  SCS damage also occurs after a book has ALREADY been graded.  

Yes, that much was implied by stating the inner well caused that specific damage.... which can only happen once it's encapsulated.

That defect really just adds insult to injury since, at the very least, all the other defects were already present according to the graders notes. Except for the dust shadow, which I guess they not only didn't factor into the grade but also didn't put in the notes.

[Professor K]

I can't remember a time I was pleasantly surprised with the grade I was given for a submitted book. At best they've come back what I thought they would. More often than not less.  Sometimes I even think they have it out for me, like I'm on some list, but maybe I'm just being paranoid. I hate seeing obviously overgraded books.  However it seems the majority bid on the grade and not the book, at least from what I've seen.

[Dark Knight]

On 2/9/2023 at 10:35 AM, lou_fine said:

Are we really going to start this whole endless discussion up again?      

Please no!!!

[Funnybooks]

one reason...

[JollyComics]

It's easy to say.

Every time, the new pedigree collection is on the sale.  It went out of control then it went back to normal.  Just a hyper thing.

[Robot Man]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:43 AM, Professor K said:

I can't remember a time I was pleasantly surprised with the grade I was given for a submitted book. At best they've come back what I thought they would. More often than not less.  Sometimes I even think they have it out for me, like I'm on some list, but maybe I'm just being paranoid. I hate seeing obviously overgraded books.  However it seems the majority bid on the grade and not the book, at least from what I've seen.

Expectations and grading seem to be getting higher and tighter. Like pricing, very hard to keep up with. I’ve collected over 50 years and do feel like I have changed with the times. I do feel that I am a very competent grader but looking at some graded books, I often wonder. 

[Phill the Governor]

I'm just going to chalk this up to human error and the book was over graded.

Enter the whole... buy the book not the grade mantra I guess.

[BanjerD]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:51 PM, Phill the Governor said:

I'm just going to chalk this up to human error and the book was over graded.

Enter the whole... buy the book not the grade mantra I guess.

[Professor K]

On 2/9/2023 at 6:55 PM, Robot Man said:

Expectations and grading seem to be getting higher and tighter. Like pricing, very hard to keep up with. I’ve collected over 50 years and do feel like I have changed with the times. I do feel that I am a very competent grader but looking at some graded books, I often wonder. 

I understand. I guess my grading standards have evolved over time into cgc standards. Meaning i've seen so many graded books that their criteria and mine are the same. So when I submit my expectations are I think realistic and for the most part accurate. Past few years I or perhaps I should we have been seeing so many over and undergraded books that the gauge is broken for having realistic expectations when submitting and personally I have submitted my last book for grading. And this was it. Graded 3.0 by the other guys, resubbed uncracked to cgc. They graded it a 2.0.  Looks at least 3.0 to me based on the thousands of other books I've seen . At least it will come home in a nicer holder.  Sorry if I'm off topic

[MusterMark]

On 2/10/2023 at 7:55 AM, Professor K said:

I understand. I guess my grading standards have evolved over time into cgc standards. Meaning i've seen so many graded books that their criteria and mine are the same. So when I submit my expectations are I think realistic and for the most part accurate. Past few years I or perhaps I should we have been seeing so many over and undergraded books that the gauge is broken for having realistic expectations when submitting and personally I have submitted my last book for grading. And this was it. Graded 3.0 by the other guys, resubbed uncracked to cgc. They graded it a 2.0.  Looks at least 3.0 to me based on the thousands of other books I've seen . At least it will come home in a nicer holder.  Sorry if I'm off topic

Personally, I would grade it as 2.0

[Gotham Kid]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:51 AM, Phill the Governor said:

I'm just going to chalk this up to human error and the book was over graded.

Multiple books not single book, but hey HA was the one doing the submitting so Christmas came early.

Had it been you, me or joe shmo ... don't count on 9.6s/9.8s handed out like they were.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Gotham Kid

[Phill the Governor]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:55 PM, Gotham Kid said:

Multiple books not single book, but hey HA was the one doing the submitting so Christmas came early.

Had it been you, me or joe shmo ... don't count on 9.6s/9.8s handed out like they were.

I guess what I'm saying is that apparently due to their grading inconsistencies across the board over the last several years, this Pedigree just happened to be submitted during that time and experienced the same inconsistencies in grading. The ones still going on to this day.

[Funnybooks]

On 2/10/2023 at 2:31 PM, Phill the Governor said:

I guess what I'm saying is that apparently due to their grading inconsistencies across the board over the last several years, this Pedigree just happened to be submitted during that time and experienced the same inconsistencies in grading. The ones still going on to this day.

bottom line...higher grades...better return for the family and for Heritage. They were very consistent during this time to their benefit

[Phill the Governor]

On 2/10/2023 at 2:35 PM, Funnybooks said:

bottom line...higher grades...better return for the family and for Heritage. They were very consistent during this time to their benefit

That's a shame. I guess CGC's ability to remain (mostly) impartial went out the window after the Blackstone acquisition.

Is there potential course for action to be taken by those who purchased books within this time period? Considering the scandal that happened over 20 years now, with the overvaluing of coins and selling them at inflated prices which resulted in federal action and legal repercussions.. isn't this the same thing now only with comic books? The difference in value of these books that were over-graded isn't a paltry amount.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Phill the Governor