Please help me understand this Promise Pedigree grade, it hurts my brain. 2 2

[MrBedrock]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:43 PM, Phill the Governor said:

That's a shame. I guess CGC's ability to remain (mostly) impartial went out the window after the Blackstone acquisition.

Is there potential course for action to be taken by those who purchased books within this time period? Considering the scandal that happened over 20 years now, with the overvaluing of coins and selling them at inflated prices which resulted in federal action and legal repercussions.. isn't this the same thing now only with comic books? The difference in value of these books that were over-graded isn't a paltry amount.

Yeah! Let's get the government involved! We have all been wronged!

In my case, I think CGC undergraded my Promise Collection book! AND I WANT TO SUE SOMEBODY!

 

[Phill the Governor]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:02 PM, MrBedrock said:

Yeah! Let's get the government involved! We have all been wronged!

In my case, I think CGC undergraded my Promise Collection book! AND I WANT TO SUE SOMEBODY!

 

Based on the spine stress lines and apparent slight wear on the bottom of the spine, personally this looks right on as a 9.2. A very pretty copy!!

But also, unless I'm mistaken there's an overwhelming sentiment that there are enough (more than just one or two) other books from the collection, by a wide enough margin to lend concern to many. And that much seems unmistakable.

 

I haven't bought a single book from this pedigree. But as a collector who does have and like CGC graded books, I feel CGC should be accountable for their lack of integrity.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Phill the Governor

[MrBedrock]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:09 PM, Phill the Governor said:

 But as a collector who does have and like CGC graded books, I feel CGC should be accountable for their lack of integrity.

I have an idea of who can help get me the money I need for the personal injury I have endured because of this Promise fiasco...

 

[Cobbledclam]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:02 PM, MrBedrock said:

Yeah! Let's get the government involved! We have all been wronged!

In my case, I think CGC undergraded my Promise Collection book! AND I WANT TO SUE SOMEBODY!

 

Did someone say Sue? 
Mr B, wouldn’t you rather pay the price for a book graded 9.2 that from the image provided looks much nicer? 

[jimbo_7071]

On 2/9/2023 at 1:38 PM, Phill the Governor said:

Forgive my ignorance, was this specific book already brought up?

Most of the Promise Collection books were graded about three increments higher than CGC norms. Some were overgraded even more than that. I saw some that looked to be overgraded by about 5 increments. The book that you posted actually appears to be one of the less overgraded ones.

The midgrade books appear to have been graded a little more accurately, but there were plenty of "single-highest-graded" copies from that collection that aren't even close to being the nicest copies out there. (There were books with 9.6 grades that had noticeable mouse chews, etc.)

 

[Gotham Kid]

I wish I could own/afford every one of the Promise Detectives (under 200)

None (that I noticed) of the Detectives looked over-graded.

Look at these gorgeous specimens

Edited February 11, 2023 by Gotham Kid

[GermanFan]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:25 AM, BanjerD said:

Judging from the cover I would grade it 5.0. Maybe 5.5 at best.

[MrBedrock]

On 2/11/2023 at 1:38 AM, Cobbledclam said:

Did someone say Sue? 
Mr B, wouldn’t you rather pay the price for a book graded 9.2 that from the image provided looks much nicer? 

That's a little creepy.

[Funnybooks]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:32 AM, GermanFan said:

Judging from the cover I would grade it 5.0. Maybe 5.5 at best.

pressed the s**t out of this copy huh?

[MrBedrock]

On 2/11/2023 at 3:39 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

Most of the Promise Collection books were graded about three increments higher than CGC norms. Some were overgraded even more than that. I saw some that looked to be overgraded by about 5 increments.

 

This is such a ridiculously exaggerated statement. Obviously you don't really believe what you wrote here.

 

[MrBedrock]

A pretty legit 9.8 for everyone but Jimbo...

 

[MusterMark]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:54 AM, MrBedrock said:

This is such a ridiculously exaggerated statement. Obviously you don't really believe what you wrote here.

 

I wouldn’t call it ridiculously exaggerated.  I would call it flat out erroneous.

[Phill the Governor]

On 2/11/2023 at 5:11 AM, Gotham Kid said:

I wish I could own/afford every one of the Promise Detectives (under 200)

None (that I noticed) of the Detectives looked over-graded.

I'm with you on that first sentiment!  

The Tec 166 I posted at the beginning of my thread I saw from scrolling through instagram. It was being marketed for an upcoming auction, and even then it stood out to me.

[Gotham Kid]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:13 PM, Phill the Governor said:

Tec 166

miscut (only thing that bothers me), but still a beaut

Edited February 11, 2023 by Gotham Kid

[adamstrange]

On 2/11/2023 at 5:11 AM, Gotham Kid said:

I wish I could own/afford every one of the Promise Detectives (under 200)

I can afford all the Promise Detectives over 200.

[JollyComics]

[lou_fine]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:25 AM, adamstrange said:

On 2/11/2023 at 2:11 AM, Gotham Kid said:

I wish I could own/afford every one of the Promise Detectives (under 200)

I can afford all the Promise Detectives over 200.

Not sure about your number here, but if you are referring to dollars, I'll take all of the ones for under 200 then.    

[Artboy99]

My Promise Collection book is graded just fine. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 2/11/2023 at 11:54 AM, MrBedrock said:

This is such a ridiculously exaggerated statement. Obviously you don't really believe what you wrote here.

 

Maybe it's an exaggeration to say that they were all overgraded by that much—but many of them were. The ones from the first few auctions where they were offered were probably among the worst overall. The ones that were offered later didn't appear to be overgraded as badly, but the grading was still soft on most of them.

Somebody just posted the Gangsters Can't Win; it would be pretty difficult to defend the grading on that one without being disingenuous.

Your Airboys didn't look bad; they were at least reasonably graded. Based on the Promise purchases you've shared, I would venture to guess that you passed on quite a few books that you knew were softly graded and targeted the rare few that were graded more tightly than the rest.

I'm assuming that the label on the Mary Marvel #6 below has a typo and that the outer cover is actually the 8.5. If that's the case, CGC is saying that the outer cover is an 8.5 even those that cover has two corners chewed off. And the inner cover, which has one cover chewed off, is a 9.2. That's just one example. @Phill the Governor can peruse the Promise threads to see more examples.

I will mention one more: The notes on this Subby 23 say "moderate bindary chip out left bottom of whole book." Does that look like a bindery chip to you? It sure looks like a mouse chew to me (and would even if I didn't know that mouse chews were prevalent within the collection).

[jimbo_7071]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:02 PM, MrBedrock said:

Yeah! Let's get the government involved! We have all been wronged!

In my case, I think CGC undergraded my Promise Collection book! AND I WANT TO SUE SOMEBODY!

 

Unlike some posters, I don't blame corruption for the inconsistent grading on the collection; I blame the exponential growth of CGC and the fact that the graders that they have now don't have the same level of experience as the graders did twenty years ago, when most of the graders were also long-time collectors. If I'm not mistaken, they also used to have three graders look at every book, and I don't think that that's happening now. 

There have been a couple of times now when we've seen periods of slightly tight grading followed by periods of extremely loose grading. After the learning curve of 2000–2001, grading was pretty darn consistent from about 2002 through at least 2007. It got pretty tight by about 2008 or 2009, and then by 2011 it had gotten really loose. I suspect that the loose grading was an overreaction to complaints from submitters about the grading being too tight, but who knows for sure.

The pendulum does seem to swing back and forth.

It seemed like the grading was a little tight throughout 2019 and 2020, and then it was followed by the loosest grading we've ever seen around the time the Promise Collection surfaced. I saw loose grading on non-pedigree books that were showing up on eBay around that time, too. Add in the likelihood that the graders were probably slightly enchanted by the mystique surrounding the Promise Collection, and wa-la!—you have the perfect recipe for many extremely loosely graded books within that pedigree.

The books are nice books, but there needs to be an asterisk next to any single-highest-graded book from that collection, in my opinion. That's not to say that every grade is wrong, but the soft grading that the collection as a whole enjoyed can't be overlooked.