Experience of a newly minted CGC subscriber and a couple of questions for CGC. 1 1

[awildhome]

Brief background: I am returning to the hobby after a roughly twenty year hiatus. I began purchasing comics at about 8 years old until 17 years old, when it was off to the US Army. Returning saw a new family life begin shortly thereafter . . . wife, house, kids, etc.. Many of you know the drill. The only interaction I had with my, rather small (500-600 books), collection was rebagging/boarding about every 5-6 years - with a smattering of new LCS purchases sprinkled in. Fast forward 40 years or so and decided to get involved again. Many changes. One of which was the idea of sending my books for 'grading', and moreover, the idea of having my childhood books encapsulated. Read a lot of forums. Watched a lot of YouTube. While, it seems all the grading services have their demons, CGC seems to be the industry leader - so CGC it is to start. Paid my $140 for a membership and also purchased the CGC Grading Guide (super nice, high-quality book) and it was off to the races. The plan was a small 'test' submission of 10 books. So, ordered a small shipping kit as part of the membership store credit. Received the grading guide in about three days. Nice, great start. Odd, they did not just pack it with the shipping kit, but probably comes from a different fulfillment area. Long story short and several calls to customer service . . . it took three weeks to ultimately get the shipping kit ordered. A very nice CS lady actually told me it could be because CGC may be out of bags and/or boards. I chuckled and told her that if that's the case to let me know, I can send them some. Ha. When it did finally appear, what is depicted in the store photo and what appears in all the videos I have watched, is not what I received. The return box did not have the 'Fragile' printing anywhere on it. Ok, I can write it on there myself. The package did not contain the little flair "9.8" label. Ok, who really needs it? But worst of all, to me, it did not contain a CGC Pen, which I actually would have liked. LOL. The membership is only a year and there I was, nearly a month in and just finally getting the initial shipping kit (I know I did not have to wait, but this was a 'test' after all). Disappointing, but 'stuff' happens. I was excited to finally be able to submit books to CGC . . . and give them more of my money in doing so. LOL.

Books were sent, Books were received by CGC, graded, slabbed and sent back to me. Outstanding TAT. In fact, less than the posted TAT. Like a kid on Christmas morning, I was, opening up that first CGC box. Some observations:

1) Out of the 10 books, all of which were 'White Pages' as expected, there were only two grades I questioned. In my, albeit untrained, eyes . . . both appear absolutely perfect in every way. Sharp corners, perfectly even cover wrap, perfectly centered and aligned staples, no indication of bindery issues - none, no creases, no color rub, no scuffs, no fingerprints, no wrinkles or waviness, no spine ticks . . . and I don't just mean no 'color breaking' spine ticks, I mean zero spine ticks. I understand that a 10 or a 9.9 is nearly impossible to get and that the move down to a 9.8 is ever so slight and also subjective (also that a 9.8 can actually have a couple of very small acceptable defects) . . . but both of these books received a 9.4. I am not complaining . . . well, I suppose I am, but I accept the grades due to my inexperience. Again, this submission was a personal test of the end-to-end process, which includes me and shows how much I obviously need to learn. I can only assume there must be something within the books that was 'off' because the only person to have ever flipped through each page was the CGC Grader - as both were unread, bagged and boarded from day one. Yes, they were dry-cleaned, pressed and allowed to rest for several weeks (due to the shipping box issue, ha) to ensure no reversion for good measure. I even wiped down the poly bags so they would appear tight and clean with no evidence of handling to the person opening the package. Yes, my OCD kicked in. And, when I say I can only 'assume' what may have been wrong, that is because there were no Grader Notes for either book. I suppose that is the root issue of this observation: Out of the 10 book submission, only one single book had Grader Notes. It would be nice, and seemingly what is paid for when hiring a 'grading service', that there would be some notes to indicate why otherwise outstanding looking books received a 9.4. According to the CGC Grading Guide, everything starts as a '10' and moves down as defects are encountered. So, if not a Unicorn '10', then why not? Why a 9.4 or 9.6 and not a 9.8? What makes it so? Something swayed at least two graders - what? Providing zero Grading Notes seems . . . lazy.

2) Out of the 10 books, four of them have the same encapsulation issues . . . 'Newton Ring' the in the upper left corner cover box (more like a Newton 'Line' that extends across the cover box) and a small crack where the CGC hologram label is. Both issues are relatively minor - the cracks are hard to see because they are over the hologram - but they are there and should not be. My newbie guess is the machine that presses the slab together had too much pressure in the top corners causing the cracks, and probably the Newton issue. QC? There was a QC stamp on the return packing slip, so someone looked at them before shipping. Maybe QC needs some QC. LOL. Aside from that, everything else was great - well centered, no bonus hairs, no plastic flash, no squeaks, labels matched the comic, etc. Although, I guess another minor mention, Punisher War Zone #1 submitted is a Newsstand issue and not noted as such on the label - I thought CGC did that now. Maybe not. No biggie as the UPC can be seen clearly on the back.

So, then, the questions for CGC:

1) What are the options to correct the encapsulation issues? I am on the fence about doing so, as the thought of sending them back (and all that can happen enroute) - CGC cracking them open to re-slab (and all that can happen during that process as one is a 9.8 and I'd like to keep it that way) - return shipping back to me (same fear as before) - not to mention the addition time all this will take, frankly, it is a bit unnerving. Nevertheless . . . what are the options, if any?

2) Are there different graders in the various tiers? In other words, if I were to submit books next time in the Economy Tier, will they go to a different team of more experienced graders than say, the Modern Tier?

Thanks in advance,

Art

[LowGradeBronze]

Worth posting a very heavily edited version of this in the Ask CGC sub forum. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

A 9.4 is essentially off-the-shelf new. If you're under the impression that 9.8 is "standard", then you must adjust your standard.

For cases with problems, such as cracks, you can re-submit for free using the Mechanical Error form. I can't recall if there is a time limit, which sometimes is 2 weeks after receipt (for free).

Yes, different ages of books may be seen by different eyes, but that may not always be the case.

[SOTIcollector]

Others are probably better qualified to answer the questions you ask.  I do feel the urge to chime in and say that this is the most impressive "newbie" post I think I've ever seen.  There are many posts from people who say they are newbies and who ask questions that could easily be answered with a simple Google search.  You have done far, far more research than any other newbie post I can recall.  Well done!

 

[awildhome]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:07 PM, Buried Undah Comics said:

You know you don't have to use rhe CGC shipping kits, right?

Yes, I know . . . and noted as much: "The membership is only a year and there I was, nearly a month in and just finally getting the initial shipping kit (I know I did not have to wait, but this was a 'test' after all)."

I'm sure I will not be using one going forward - no real need to - not with free USPS boxes and Gemini's at the ready. Unless, of course, I want to take a second crack at getting that hard-to-get CGC Pen. LOL.

[awildhome]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:12 PM, Buried Undah Comics said:

Incorrect assumption:

I didn't 'assume' there would be grader notes . . . I wrote "It would be nice . . . ". I did read the disclaimer, but not including notes is nevertheless . . . lazy (IMHumbleO). Maybe I am too old school and still half-expect people to do a thorough job. But, after reading and watching much about the process . . . in general I get how the game works. I suppose that is why CPR is a thing. Ha.

[awildhome]

On 2/10/2023 at 8:06 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

A 9.4 is essentially off-the-shelf new. If you're under the impression that 9.8 is "standard", then you must adjust your standard.

For cases with problems, such as cracks, you can re-submit for free using the Mechanical Error form. I can't recall if there is a time limit, which sometimes is 2 weeks after receipt (for free).

Yes, different ages of books may be seen by different eyes, but that may not always be the case.

Did I write that I thought a 9.8 was the 'standard'? I hope not, but I do think that a book which appears as new off the shelf - and not only that - but has sharp corners, perfect cover wrap and staple alignment with no visible defects would probably warrant one. A 9.8 is allowed to have " . . . very minor wear to the cover. Only one or two handling defects are allowed on a 9.8, such as a very small color breaking stress line on the spine, or a couple of light bends to the cover. Tiny wear can exist on one corner or around a staple." Pg 276 of the CGC Guide. I did also write that there could very well be a defect inside the book, as the only human to flip through al the pages was the CGC grader(s).

But I do take your point and agree . . . the 9.8 should not be tossed around like candy. It should be for exceptionally high grade books and it should be rather rare. I have a feeling CGC is grading 'tighter' than they may have in the past - judging from what many of the YouTube wonders are claiming. It is less important to me, as these books are all childhood books and for my PC. 

Thank you for the note about Mechanical Error, tier submission/personnel and the time frame. I Appreciate your comments and advice. I have much to learn . . . and enjoy!

[awildhome]

On 2/10/2023 at 9:41 AM, SOTIcollector said:

Others are probably better qualified to answer the questions you ask.  I do feel the urge to chime in and say that this is the most impressive "newbie" post I think I've ever seen.  There are many posts from people who say they are newbies and who ask questions that could easily be answered with a simple Google search.  You have done far, far more research than any other newbie post I can recall.  Well done!

 

Thank you. I am old enough to know that I don't know even half as much as I need to know . . . and probably trying to absorb it all too fast. It's a character flaw. LOL.

Thanks!

[Yorick]

Nice to see some thoughtful queries here.

Welcome to the Boards.

[thehumantorch]

On 2/10/2023 at 8:41 PM, awildhome said:

Thank you. I am old enough to know that I don't know even half as much as I need to know . . . and probably trying to absorb it all too fast. It's a character flaw. LOL.

Thanks!

Welcome to the boards.  Perhaps you could post pics of the 9.4s?

[awildhome]

On 2/11/2023 at 1:00 AM, thehumantorch said:

Welcome to the boards.  Perhaps you could post pics of the 9.4s?

Hey there, Torch . . . thank you. I have attached a couple pics from the Punisher War Zone 1 (Newsstand). This, nor the other 9.4 I questioned, are all that valuable on the market . . . but these are books I purchased new off the shelf and have personal value. If they are to be encapsulated, I just want them to get the grade they deserve. If truly a 9.4, that is fine. This book is not even as sharp as the other. PWZ copy has some very minimal bindery bump. And, because I can't take a proper picture to save my life, anything that looks like waviness is not - it is reflection (I am even visible on the reverse cover photo. Hi!). I will acknowledge, as with the other book, I never looked through all the pages - this book was never read - so it is possible there is some oddball issue within the wraps. I doubt it, but anything is possible. One of the books from the same submission came back a 9.6 and it has several visible spine ticks. Now, that one, I could see being a 9.4. Some grader notes sure would have solved the mystery. In my head at least. LOL. 

Thanks again. These boards are awesome. Comments are appreciated as I am most certainly in 'learning mode'.

Art

[Yorick]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:56 AM, awildhome said:

Punisher War Zone 1

Really nice looking copy.  I have been relaxing my standards of "only 9.8" on modern books.  I find that many of my 9.6s look just as good or better than some 9.8s.  As they say, "buy the book, not the grade".

Perhaps that one got a 9.4 because of the holes in the front cover. 

[zzutak]

On 2/9/2023 at 1:09 PM, awildhome said:

Out of the 10 book submission, only one single book had Grader Notes.

And that book was a CGC 6.5 white.    Collectively, the OP's other nine books received zero Grader Notes.  Nada, nothing, no hint of what blemishes/defects/imperfections were detected on his single 9.2, three 9.4s, three 9.6s, and/or two 9.8s.  No bueno. 

I'm fully aware of CGC's official policies regrading Grader Notes and Label Notes.  I can understand CGC not wanting its graders to take the time to document every minuscule blemish they see on each 9.6/9.8 Modern that crosses their desk.  However, allowing books with grades of 9.2/9.4 to move on to encapsulation without even a single blemish being noted is (in my opinion) bad business, as it leads to the type/degree of dissatisfaction/frustration the OP has expressed above.  The last time I checked, folks were ponying up either $24 or $39 to have their Moderns certified/encapsulated.  In my opinion, that's a high enough fee to allow the CGC grader to spend 10 seconds checking a box or two on his/her drop-down menu of blemishes/defects -- especially considering that only about one-third of the 5 million post-1990 Moderns certified by CGC to date have grades below 9.6. 

[awildhome]

On 2/11/2023 at 2:02 PM, zzutak said:

And that book was a CGC 6.5 white.    Collectively, the OP's other nine books received zero Grader Notes.  Nada, nothing, no hint of what blemishes/defects/imperfections were detected on his single 9.2, three 9.4s, three 9.6s, and/or two 9.8s.  No bueno. 

I'm fully aware of CGC's official policies regrading Grader Notes and Label Notes.  I can understand CGC not wanting its graders to take the time to document every minuscule blemish they see on each 9.6/9.8 Modern that crosses their desk.  However, allowing books with grades of 9.2/9.4 to move on to encapsulation without even a single blemish being noted is (in my opinion) bad business, as it leads to the type/degree of dissatisfaction/frustration the OP has expressed above.  The last time I checked, folks were ponying up either $24 or $39 to have their Moderns certified/encapsulated.  In my opinion, that's a high enough fee to allow the CGC grader to spend 10 seconds checking a box or two on his/her drop-down menu of blemishes/defects -- especially considering that only about one-third of the 5 million post-1990 Moderns certified by CGC to date have grades below 9.6. 

Hi, zzutak. Yes . . . the 6.5 was 'low man on the totem pole' by a ways and, not coincidentally, the only book that I did not personally buy new. The 6.5 was, I believe, the correct grade. Color breaking spine ticks, edge wear and even a small dog-ear bend to the upper right front cover. No issues with that grade whatsoever.

Your comments are exactly what I am talking about . . . but better said . . . thank you!

[zzutak]

My pleasure.    And thank you for your service to our country!     

[Gaard]

I know there are a bunch of coinees and card collectors on here. I'm neither so I don't know ... are notes given on those?

[mephistopheles]

Everything the OP experienced is why people switch from CGC to CBCS. The only reasons to go with CGC over CBCS is that CGC commands higher $ and label preference. CBCS is more consistent in their grades and always comes with grader's notes. Even when CGC does provide grader's notes you hear horror stories like the exact same notes copy pasted across multiple books of various grades (see video below 26 min mark). I think the standards slipped during the covid comic boom, but there really is no excuse anymore.