Ebay Buyer Wants a Refund Because They Disagree With CGC's Grading 3 3

[Grendel72]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:42 PM, Sigur Ros said:

CGC didn't sell him the book.  He can't take it up with them.  If he tried they'd tell him to take it up with the seller.

If the guy feels he didn't get what he paid for, he needs to take it up with the seller, then eBay.  Not in the way he did, though.

He's not wrong though.  It doesn't look like a 9.6.  But definitely more of a 9.4 than a 7.0.

Biggest problem in this entire event is the mentality of "the experts graded it, how dare you question it".

 Not sure how to respond to this. The whole premise of companies like CGC is to provide an Impartial assessment of a book. Many sellers here on the forum do not allow returns for graded books as opposed to raw books. There is a difference. And I really don't think the OP is saying (and he confirmed this) that you can't question the grade.  All he is saying is he has been transparent as possible about the book he has been selling. The buyer has to take some responsibility. Of course there could be damage to the book while shipping but this was not the case here. And to your last point , how many posts have we seen here that pple are unhappy with the grades CGC has given for their books ? I don't remember where CGC allows free regrading. If you can see the book isn't a 9.6 based on the pic posted , then the buyer in this instance should have educated himself to assess better. 

[MAR1979]

On 2/12/2023 at 4:09 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

Glad eBay saw sense and ruled in your favour. With the general presumption that the buyer is always right, it wasn't necessarily a done deal.

Threatening neg feedback is a major violation. I wonder if that was reason for ruling

[Gaard]

I never really understood the 'no refunds on CGC books' policy that sellers seem to have everywhere. I know I'm in the extreme minority, but I firmly believe that a person should be happy with their purchase (afterall, they work hard for that money), and if they're not, for whatever reason, I happily refund their money.

I sometimes think this person does it because that person does it.

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:38 AM, Grendel72 said:

And I really don't think the OP is saying (and he confirmed this) that you can't question the grade.  

Lol..

His words:  it is ludicrous to dispute the grade of a CGC comic book.  

Someone else's words:  I would say no to the refund, the professionals grades it, if they don't agree they shouldn't be purchasing graded books.

 

On 2/13/2023 at 8:38 AM, Grendel72 said:

I don't remember where CGC allows free regrading.

I don't think anyone here has suggested they do.

 

On 2/13/2023 at 8:38 AM, Grendel72 said:

  If you can see the book isn't a 9.6 based on the pic posted , then the buyer in this instance should have educated himself to assess better. 

I don't know what pictures he saw.

I gave my opinion based solely on the spine and lower right edge of the front cover posted here.  Others may disagree, like CGC, but for all I know the back cover is missing and my 9.4 was very generous.  No idea what the seller received.

Buyer seems like a jerk, based on one side of the argument anyway, but when you said take it up with the grader, to quote you, they don't offer free regarding.  

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:55 AM, Gaard said:

I never really understood the 'no refunds on CGC books' policy that sellers seem to have everywhere. I know I'm in the extreme minority, but I firmly believe that a person should be happy with their purchase (afterall, they work hard for that money), and if they're not, for whatever reason, I happily refund their money.

I sometimes think this person does it because that person does it.

I sell on eBay.  I can't grasp the mentality of people saying "sorry, you bought it, you're stuck with it".

The other thing I don't understand is why eBay still has the "no returns" option since that hasn't been policy for years.  People select it as if it means anything, then get upset when eBay forces the refund.

[awakeintheashes]

On 2/11/2023 at 4:53 PM, seredynskib said:

I read on here some years ago that a scam artist mailed a package with nothing inside. Ebay uses "tracking" as proof of something being mailed. Maybe I am overthinking the buyer as a scammer, but the main point here is how can someone dispute a CGC grade as a reason for a refund?

The book is professionally graded by CGC and inside the CGC case.

It has happened to me twice. Once with an IH 181, so be prepared for that to happen. I ended up getting my money back from eBay after a month or so, but the buyer got to keep the book and the money eBay refunded to them. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by awakeintheashes

[D2]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:28 AM, Jaylam said:

I quit selling on ebay for this very reason. I just consign my books through an auction house and let them handle all the crazies out there. It's really too bad, but even one bad transaction isn't worth all the headaches and time spent trying to resolve it.

Which do you prefer to use? Do you see which you get best results with?

[jimjum12]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:55 AM, Gaard said:

I never really understood the 'no refunds on CGC books' policy that sellers seem to have everywhere. I know I'm in the extreme minority, but I firmly believe that a person should be happy with their purchase (afterall, they work hard for that money), and if they're not, for whatever reason, I happily refund their money.

My feelings as well. I like tightly graded 7.5's(for example), but I have put many back at shows because the eye appeal was horrible when I got a close look at it. This is why I offer returns on slabs. I don't, however, do many "after purchase" price reductions, as it is too easy to "game" that system. Sometimes the photos and scans just aren't accurate enough, so it's only fair to let the buyer have some face time with the book before finalizing. GOD BLESS... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Gaard]

It's not possible to give an accurate grade based on photos. If it were, why would people have to send their books off to grading companies?

Why is it that the opinion of a CGC grader is given more weight than an opinion of anyone else when the book is in hand? Especially these days. If John at CGC says "this looks like 9.6", and Scott, standing in his kitchen, says "this looks like a 7.0", is John's opinion automatically given more weight? Is Scott's opinion ludicrous?

 

* I seem to remember that CGC would offer their opinion on books being sold on Ebay. For a price, CGC would offer their opinion on the grade of a book before you decided to bid on it. Not only seems like a money grab by CGC, but a complete waste of money by buyers. I don't think they do it anymore.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Gaard

[lostboys]

I just bought a 9.6 sig series with a dinged corner...obvious SCS.

 

I went back and looked at the pics in the listing.

 

Of course, now that I know the damage is there, I can see it in the pics.

 

The seller did a good job of hiding it though.

 

 

[seredynskib]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:17 AM, Sigur Ros said:

I don't know what pictures he saw.

I gave my opinion based solely on the spine and lower right edge of the front cover posted here.  Others may disagree, like CGC, but for all I know the back cover is missing and my 9.4 was very generous.  No idea what the seller received.

The buyer complained about the tick marks on the spine and how the lower right front corner isn't perfectly flush. He did not complain about anything regarding the back cover. You can clearly see both "imperfections" in the picture I posted here (the same front cover picture that was on Ebay).

The front cover not aligning perfectly is a common manufacturing defect with X-Men #107. Here is anther example of an X-Men 107 CGC 9.6 with the same "defect" https://www.ebay.com/itm/204172014740?hash=item2f8999b494:g:pQUAAOSw91BivzLE

I believe the buyer was being unreasonable calling the book a "7.0 at best" and using threats to get his way. I believe his expectations are that a 1977 9.6 should look like a 2023 modern age 9.8. If he simply messaged me first, instead of filing a "fraudulent item case" against me, I would have been open to having a reasonable dialog.

For example, I sold a CGC SS Stan Lee book to a different person on Ebay a year ago who messaged me and said his wife was mad at him for spending that much money on a comic book. He asked if he could cancel the purchase. I agreed to the cancellation. The buyer of my former X-Men 107 on the other hand did not handle the situation in a friendly or reasonable manner.

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/13/2023 at 10:29 AM, seredynskib said:

The buyer complained about the tick marks on the spine and how the lower right front corner isn't perfectly flush. He did not complain about anything regarding the back cover. You can clearly see both "imperfections" in the picture I posted here (the same front cover picture that was on Ebay).

The front cover not aligning perfectly is a common manufacturing defect with X-Men #107. Here is anther example of an X-Men 107 CGC 9.6 with the same "defect" https://www.ebay.com/itm/204172014740?hash=item2f8999b494:g:pQUAAOSw91BivzLE

I believe the buyer was being unreasonable calling the book a "7.0 at best" and using threats to get his way. I believe his expectations are that a 1977 9.6 should look like a 2023 modern age 9.8. If he simply messaged me first, instead of filing a "fraudulent item case" against me, I would have been open to having a reasonable dialog.

For example, I sold a CGC SS Stan Lee book to a different person on Ebay a year ago who messaged me and said his wife was mad at him for spending that much money on a comic book. He asked if he could cancel the purchase. I agreed to the cancellation. The buyer of my former X-Men 107 on the other hand did not handle the situation in a friendly or reasonable manner.

I agree he's being unreasonable. Based on the photos he should have seen it was likely overgraded, but not by much.

Should have been able to tell by the photos if he wanted it or not.  Maybe he just bought it blindly trusting the grade. Who knows..

If he wasn't trying to scam a partial refund and was just disappointed at the condition, then he went about it all wrong.  I hope in the future you understand it is perfectly reasonable to question CGC grades.  Along with your book, I posted another example previously.

Anyway, glad it worked out for ya.

[Jaylam]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:42 AM, D2 said:

Which do you prefer to use? Do you see which you get best results with?

I have pretty much just used ComicConnect and ComicLink over the last decade or so. Results are varied and all over the place, you know how it goes, some books sell for more, some less. Sometimes you get surprised. I've had a few books listed for sale that didn't sell for my asking price and then put them up for auction just to see the final price go above my original asking price, so go figure!

[Ken Aldred]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:29 PM, seredynskib said:

The front cover not aligning perfectly is a common manufacturing defect with X-Men #107

Yup.  A permissible production defect.  Mentioned many times on here that it can be allowed through in the CGC grading process.

[rexinnih]

Thanks for keeping us updated on the resolution. 

[Darkseid of the Moon]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:55 AM, Gaard said:

I never really understood the 'no refunds on CGC books' policy that sellers seem to have everywhere. I know I'm in the extreme minority, but I firmly believe that a person should be happy with their purchase (afterall, they work hard for that money), and if they're not, for whatever reason, I happily refund their money.

I sometimes think this person does it because that person does it.

Because then there would be a terrible abuse of the 30 day return option if a similar book was found for cheaper.  Or if the buyer changes their mind and decides they need the money back for whatever reason... 

If I can remember correctly, ebay had 30 day money back guarantee for graded cards on every seller when graded cards were just getting really hot.  Buyers were abusing the spoon out of the free return policy and sellers were up in arms.  ebay finally changed the return policy (can't remember how they did it). 

Also, as You can see from the op's situation - it wasn't as easy as a lot think it is to force a return when a seller doesn't offer returns.  ebay ruled in favor of the seller this time luckily. 

As a buyer - if the seller provides good pictures front and back, a well thought out description with terms of the sale, - and doesn't offer returns - is it fair to the seller?  A buyer has ample enough time to make a buying decision.  If I buy something after doing research and see it somewhere else down the road for cheaper - I don't try to make BS excuses and "force" a return on a seller who doesn't deserve it.  Personally, - I have returned things on amazon because they do allow free 30 day returns and I can bet a lot of other people do too.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Darkseid of the Moon

[Lord Gemini]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:20 AM, Sigur Ros said:

I sell on eBay.  I can't grasp the mentality of people saying "sorry, you bought it, you're stuck with it".

The other thing I don't understand is why eBay still has the "no returns" option since that hasn't been policy for years.  People select it as if it means anything, then get upset when eBay forces the refund.

I can't grasp the mentality of people wanting to return a book when they saw what they were getting beforehand. Yeah, the flaws were disclosed. They're stuck with it. No guilt.

[Jesse-Lee]

One of the major issues with eBay that I don't know how you'd fix it is that people don't seem to read anymore - I feel like this is a newer trend (not based on age, but based on how we're all fed and receive info now), because I see this at work a lot too.

I carefully detail any flaws in the books I'm selling, both in pictures and in the text description, but I still get messages like "hey, is that a spine tic above the top staple?" Yes, it is - hence the "spine tic above top staple, soft corner on lower right" etc. details I added and the close-up photo. I'll also combine shipping and specify that if you buy multiple items you should ask for a combined invoice, but I still get people who will buy 3 books, pay for them with the shipping on all of them, and then message asking for a refund for shipping.

[500Club]

On 2/14/2023 at 8:33 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

I carefully detail any flaws in the books I'm selling, both in pictures and in the text description, but I still get messages like "hey, is that a spine tic above the top staple?" Yes, it is - hence the "spine tic above top staple, soft corner on lower right" etc. details I added and the close-up photo. I'll also combine shipping and specify that if you buy multiple items you should ask for a combined invoice, but I still get people who will buy 3 books, pay for them with the shipping on all of them, and then message asking for a refund for shipping.

That drives me nuts.

It’s also likely what happened here.  The buyer didn’t bother to look at anything beyond ‘CGC 9.6 Sig Series’.  Any miswrap or ‘bad seating’ is clearly visible in photos.

Edited February 15, 2023 by 500Club
corrected, per greggy and fat joe

[Action252Kid]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:38 PM, Darkseid of the Moon said:

Because then there would be a terrible abuse of the 30 day return option if a similar book was found for cheaper.  Or if the buyer changes their mind and decides they need the money back for whatever reason... 

If I can remember correctly, ebay had 30 day money back guarantee for graded cards on every seller when graded cards were just getting really hot.  Buyers were abusing the spoon out of the free return policy and sellers were up in arms.  ebay finally changed the return policy (can't remember how they did it). 

Also, as You can see from the op's situation - it wasn't as easy as a lot think it is to force a return when a seller doesn't offer returns.  ebay ruled in favor of the seller this time luckily. 

As a buyer - if the seller provides good pictures front and back, a well thought out description with terms of the sale, - and doesn't offer returns - is it fair to the seller?  A buyer has ample enough time to make a buying decision.  If I buy something after doing research and see it somewhere else down the road for cheaper - I don't try to make BS excuses and "force" a return on a seller who doesn't deserve it.  Personally, - I have returned things on amazon because they do allow free 30 day returns and I can bet a lot of other people do too.

It's not nearly as bad as the card returns were during the big run up in prices.. but I've been forced to take multiple $2500+ CGC graded returns from eBay sales, literally on day 30 of the 30 day return policy in the past few months.  You basically 'have' to offer 30 day returns in order to get better placement and get the (small) discount on final value fees, and for 99% of orders, it works out just fine.  But the concept of someone buying an expensive slab, having it in hand for 30 days (which of course means you are able to try selling it, take it to shows, post online for sale) and then return it at absolutely zero cost to you/at the expense of the original seller, is obviously not fair.