My Email to CGC... 1 1

[BCR]

So I've actually called CGC twice in the past about this issue, but it was never addressed, so I decided to just pony up the money and fix the census myself. Unfortunately, when I checked on the submission, the error is in the process of being repeated. I'm not sure how well CGC checks emails, so figured I'd post here as well. And I know maybe a lot of people aren't focused on/don't care about these books, but they're books I care about, and they're books that the census is objectively incorrect about. I sent in 1st printings and (intentionally damaged) 2nd printings with a very specific note regarding the differences between the books so there would be zero room to make any mistakes in the categorizing of these books.

"Hello -- 

I just checked on my submission [#######] and noticed that several of the books are being mislabeled. I had contacted CGC via phone several months ago to inform them of an issue on their census data, and that it could result in a major issue down the road. 

After not seeing anything changed on the census, I sent in some of my own books, and even intentionally damaged two of the books with the sole intention of having the census corrected to notate the existence of those books (2nd printings). 

I included a detailed note with the submission to make sure that the books would not be mislabeled, but it appears they are being mislabeled. 

Not only do the 1st printings have different covers than the 2nd printings, but the actual indicia is also different -- with differing publication dates. Yet despite this, the books are all being filed together. The singular change that's being made, is a census is now being created for the "Convention Exclusive" which is the 1st print of Overwatch #2.

The second version, that was printed years later, comes with a key chain type toy, and has different indicia and without "Convention Exclusive" in the corner. 

The primary issue with this is that nearly ALL of the issue #2's that have been graded by CGC have been the "Convention Exclusive" 1st printings. And those are all therefore listed under the existing "Issue 1" moniker for Overwatch #2 on the census. The books I've just sent in will be resulting (per the information sent to me) in the creation of a "Convention Exclusive" tier for Overwatch #2. Which means that anyone who sends in the 2nd printing toy packaged version will end up in that "Issue 1" tier with no designation of a 2nd printing, which would be okay if 1) The date was correct via its indicia and 2) All of the "Convention Exclusive" printings weren't already assigned "Issue 1". The Overwatch #2 comic I sent in damaged, with a giant fold across its front, is the second printing toy package comic. Which I noted with a sticky on its sleeve. It was printed years later, is reflected as such in the indicia, and it is currently in the process of being labeled and slabbed under the publication date of the 1st printing. 

The issue with Overwatch #1 is even more egregious, and is the one that requires more precision grading. The indicia dating is different, between the 1st and 2nd (toy package) printing, but the only other discernable change in covers is that the artwork is cut off at the bottom. I noted this specifically in the submission for the grader, and like issue #2, I intentionally damaged the comic so that the 2nd print category would be created on the census. 

Currently, per the data sent to me, these two comics are going to be slabbed with 1) incorrect publication dates, and 2) with incorrect print number notation. People then buying these books slabbed will be buying them under false, incorrect information. 

Hopefully this will be addressed and the issue corrected. If you need more information from me, I'm at your disposal. 

Thank you" 

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm confused, which could mean that CGC is also confused.

[MAR1979]

From your post I'm not understanding the situation. Your case needs to be detailed in a more clear fashion. Perhaps mention what book it is and use bullet points to state a more precise and succinct case. 

 

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/14/2023 at 7:20 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'm confused, which could mean that CGC is also confused.

I dunno, I thought the bold print made it perfectly clear  ;)

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/14/2023 at 1:00 AM, BCR said:

The Overwatch #2 comic I sent in damaged, with a giant fold across its front, is the second printing toy package comic. Which I noted with a sticky on its sleeve. 

Glad to see you used a sleeve, to keep it protected from damage.

[djzombi]

Seems clear to me, folks.  

This person identified an issue where 1st and 2nd prints are being lumped together on the labels and in the census, instead of being correctly identified as different printings by CGC's professionals.  
 

I'm with the OP on this.  If it's happening with this specific comic, who knows how many other slabbed books of other comics have also been misidentified, and are now on the market.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 2/14/2023 at 9:32 AM, djzombi said:

Seems clear to me, folks.

This person identified an issue where 1st and 2nd prints are being lumped together on the labels and in the census, instead of being correctly identified as different printings by CGC's professionals.
 

I'm with the OP on this.  If it's happening with this specific comic, who knows how many other slabbed books of other comics have also been misidentified, and are now on the market.

That's what I inferred, but it's definitely not clear. You must admit that the OP used far too many words to describe the situation if the problem is as simple as we're 'understanding'.

[djzombi]

On 2/14/2023 at 9:38 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

That's what I inferred, but it's definitely not clear. You must admit that the OP used far too many words to describe the situation if the problem is as simple as we're 'understanding'.

I typically have the same problem myself...you should (not) hear some of the rambling voicemails I've left for people 

[Yorick]

I have some Kingdom Come second printings (that clearly have the roman numeral "II" on the cover) which reside in a regular Kingdom Come first printing labeled holder.  I have a few non-USA published comics that are labeled by their USA originating titles.

Don't worry so much about CGC's mistakes.  The die-hard collectors will find the books they are seeking.

I seek some rare comics, and the idea of intentionally damaging them makes my head hurt. 

[BCR]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:20 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'm confused, which could mean that CGC is also confused.

The problem is that the problem is multifaceted. 

At its most rudimentary it does come down to “you are putting first printings and second printings together”, but I’m having to walk them through how to identify the differences. And even when I did that succinctly in a note on the books themselves, we still arrived here.

[BCR]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:45 AM, Yorick said:

I have some Kingdom Come second printings (that clearly have the roman numeral "II" on the cover) which reside in a regular Kingdom Come first printing labeled holder.  I have a few non-USA published comics that are labeled by their USA originating titles.

Don't worry so much about CGC's mistakes.  The die-hard collectors will find the books they are seeking.

I seek some rare comics, and the idea of intentionally damaging them makes my head hurt. 

I think you might be wrong for issue #1. It is indistinguishable other than the art work being cut slightly different. And the average buyer isn’t going to be able to tell the difference. 
 

Also…it’s just incorrect. And it doesn’t need to be incorrect. The labels should correctly reflect the encased collectible. It’s literally a part of what we’re paying for. They need to do their job correctly. That’s…their job. 

[BCR]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:52 AM, Doomed said:

If you cared about them you wouldn't intentionally damage them

And how does damaging a book fix the census? 

I don’t care about the toy inserts for issues 1 and 2. That’s the point. They’re not first printings and they were printed and continue to be printed for the toys. 
 

There ARE two first printings that arrive in the toys, but those are not issues 1 and 2. So those specific toy comics I do care about.

[Yorick]

On 2/14/2023 at 8:49 AM, BCR said:

I think you might be wrong for issue #1.

For the Kingdom Come I mentioned, or the Overwatch which you had sent for grading?

On 2/14/2023 at 8:49 AM, BCR said:

And it doesn’t need to be incorrect.

I agree that the Census should be correct.  Human error?  Laziness?

[BCR]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:53 AM, Yorick said:

For the Kingdom Come I mentioned, or the Overwatch which you had sent for grading?

I agree that the Census should be correct.  Human error?  Laziness?

For both — but especially for the books I sent in being that I went through multiple layers of effort to make sure that this precise thing didn’t occur. I also (as I said) called on two separate occasions to warn them about this issue that was developing. 

Like, I’m literally spending money to fix their census. Because it’s wrong. Human error is impossible at this point, and laziness is just inexcusable, I think. 
 

It’s a clear and obvious error that can be fixed very easily. And it’s an error that could have disastrous long term consequences. And even if it it isn’t disastrous consequences, it should be fixed because it’s wrong. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:46 AM, BCR said:

At its most rudimentary it does come down to “you are putting first printings and second printings together”, but I’m having to walk them through how to identify the differences. And even when I did that succinctly in a note on the books themselves, we still arrived here.

Considering that they've only graded like 4 copies of this book, how else would CGC learn the differences? Based on your first post here, it could be safe to assume that the notes included with your books were confusing to CGC's staff.

I did some brief research after my last comment and there's only like 3 total images on Google about the "Convention Exclusive" for Issue #2. With a very little amount of information available regarding this issue, you're going to need to be concise if you wish for CGC to fulfill the books with complete accuracy.

[BCR]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:00 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Considering that they've only graded like 4 copies of this book, how else would CGC learn the differences? Based on your first post here, it could be safe to assume that the notes included with your books were confusing to CGC's staff.

I did some brief research after my last comment and there's only like 3 total images on Google about the "Convention Exclusive" for Issue #2. With a very little amount of information available regarding this issue, you're going to need to be concise if you wish for CGC to fulfill the books with complete accuracy.

The notes on the books were concise. 

The notes read: “2nd printing toy box comic” 

Additionally, the actual submission form noted the two second printing toy comics. 

They ignored both the physical notes attached to the comics and the submission form. 
 

The only “action” they took was to create a NEW tier on the census for Overwatch #2 called the “Convention Edition” — which all (to my knowledge) of the graded Overwatch #2’s already are. 

These are issues I’ve also called them about, spoke to human beings who said they understood the issue. 

Literally paying money to have the census corrected was my final option. So to see it even now not being addressed is bothersome. 

Hopefully since they are still in the process of slabbing, it can be amended. Hence the email and the post here. 

[The Lions Den]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:49 AM, BCR said:

Also…it’s just incorrect. And it doesn’t need to be incorrect. The labels should correctly reflect the encased collectible. It’s literally a part of what we’re paying for. They need to do their job correctly. That’s…their job. 

It would be nice if everyone did their job correctly, but that seems like a lost cause these days. And this is a complicated case...you know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous...  

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:06 PM, BCR said:

The notes on the books were concise. 

The notes read: “2nd printing toy box comic” 

Additionally, the actual submission form noted the two second printing toy comics. 

They ignored both the physical notes attached to the comics and the submission form. 
 

The only “action” they took was to create a NEW tier on the census for Overwatch #2 called the “Convention Edition” — which all (to my knowledge) of the graded Overwatch #2’s already are. 

These are issues I’ve also called them about, spoke to human beings who said they understood the issue. 

Literally paying money to have the census corrected was my final option. So to see it even now not being addressed is bothersome. 

Hopefully since they are still in the process of slabbing, it can be amended. Hence the email and the post here. 

You're not going to be able to fix the Convention Editions being counted as 1st Printing, though.

[BCR]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:15 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You're not going to be able to fix the Convention Editions being counted as 1st Printing, though.

The convention editions are the first printings — but it’s not super relevant that they say “first printing” as much as the toy versions are lumped on the census with convention editions. 

The much more complex issue is #1. Because there are no identifying difference between the first print and the second print except for a slight alteration to the artwork. 
 

If you’re holding the physical book, the first print is card stock, and the second print is normal floppy paper. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:23 PM, BCR said:

The convention editions are the first printings — but it’s not super relevant that they say “first printing” as much as the toy versions are lumped on the census with convention editions. 

The much more complex issue is #1. Because there are no identifying difference between the first print and the second print except for a slight alteration to the artwork. 
 

If you’re holding the physical book, the first print is card stock, and the second print is normal floppy paper. 

The fact that you're talking about Issue #1 and #2 at the same time is driving home my suspicion that you confused CGC. As of this point, I no longer understand your beef with Issue #2. To be honest, it's better off that I leave this thread. Hope you get the response(s) you're looking for.