Top 5 M-SHE-U Failures 4 4

[Jaydogrules]

On 3/15/2023 at 10:56 AM, Artboy99 said:

it is poor story telling and poor character. Ri-Ri is an awful character following in the footsteps of Rey in Star Wars: just simply is the best and has no character journey. Cassie from Quantumania is yet another teen girl that can build a device that can create a portal to the quantum realm and build her own ant suit.

You forgot about Shuri.  

-J.

[drotto]

Biggest problem is they stopped writing characters with actual story arcs or flaws.  When we get a new character, they are already, the smartest, the most powerful, lack any significant character flaws, and are already the best in their given talent set or power set.  They are written so they do not need to change. They never need to earn anything, we are just supposed to like and support them, because they are the next greatest thing. Before, the characters always had flaws.  They always needed to improve and grow. 

 

Now when they are introduced the story arc always seems to be, you always could do this, you just needed to believe in yourself. That's it.  That applies to America, Riri, Shuri, Capitan Marvel,  new Hawkeye, and on and on. That story gets really boring when told repeatedly. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by drotto

[thegiftedone45]

On 3/15/2023 at 1:56 PM, Artboy99 said:

it is poor story telling and poor character. Ri-Ri is an awful character following in the footsteps of Rey in Star Wars: just simply is the best and has no character journey. Cassie from Quantumania is yet another teen girl that can build a device that can create a portal to the quantum realm and build her own ant suit.

I agree with Cassie but man to me they made her unlikable for most of that movie.  She was very self righteous and put down her Dad at least 3 times I can remember. In other words she was nothing like she was in the first 2 films.  I know she was a kid in the first 2 films but it was a 180 personality change. 

[crassus]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:09 PM, drotto said:

Biggest problem is they stopped writing characters with actual story arcs or flaws.  When we get a new characters, they are already, the smartest, the most powerful, lack any significant character flaws, and are already the best in their given talent set or power set.  Thet are written so they do not need to change. They never need to earn anything, we are just supposed to like and support them, because they are the next greatest thing. Before, the characters always had flaws.  They always needed to improve and grow. 

 

Now when they are introduced the story and arc always seems to be, you always could do this, you just needed to believe in yourself. That's it.  That applies to America, Riri, Shuri, Captian Marvel,  new Hawkeye, and on and on. That story gets really boring when told repeatedly. 

I agree completely, no patience to develop a backstory that would make many of these characters actually compelling. In the first Thor movie they got it right because they knew that, out of the gate, nobody is going to empathize with a physically perfect immortal (blonde) "prince of the realm" who knows he's the hottest &%%&% in the universe, so they started the movie by making him unlikeable, and then breaking him, cast him to earth, unable to lift the hammer, unworthy. He then had to climb back and learn, he had to earn his place. In the process he also had to earn the audiences respect. 

[Artboy99]

On 3/15/2023 at 3:58 PM, Jaydogrules said:

You forgot about Shuri.  

-J.

yes i did. thank you

[Zonker]

On 3/15/2023 at 8:09 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'm not a fan of calling it the "M-She-U", as it's a bit of a dog whistle, but it sadly paints an astute picture using only a single phrase.

 

This.

Entirely legitimate criticism of the recent films is undercut by the banner headline, which makes it sound like a middle-aged fanboy whining about who let these nasty girls in to play with our toys?  

I don't have a problem with the filmmakers checking whatever diversity boxes they want in the service of a good story.  The problem comes if those in charge think getting the politics "right" (whether you agree with them or not) is more important than getting the script and characters right.  

Edited March 16, 2023 by Zonker

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:56 AM, Zonker said:

This.

Entirely legitimate criticism of the recent films is undercut by the banner headline, which makes it sound like a middle-aged fanboy whining about who let these nasty girls in to play with our toys?  

I don't have a problem with the filmmakers checking whatever diversity boxes they want in the service of a good story.  The problem comes if those in charge think getting the politics "right" (whether you agree with them or not) is more important than getting the [b[]s[/b]cript and characters right.  

Where the "M-She-U" phrase has its advantage is that the problems with Phase Bore (my preferred terminology) are perpetuated now in Phase Five.

Any suggestions? Phase Deprive? Phase Dive?

[bentbryan]

Phase Dive  

[Bosco685]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:17 AM, bentbryan said:

Phase Dive  

Ouch!

But unfortunately accurate. For now.

[crassus]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:56 AM, Zonker said:

This.

Entirely legitimate criticism of the recent films is undercut by the banner headline, which makes it sound like a middle-aged fanboy whining about who let these nasty girls in to play with our toys?  

I don't have a problem with the filmmakers checking whatever diversity boxes they want in the service of a good story.  The problem comes if those in charge think getting the politics "right" (whether you agree with them or not) is more important than getting the script and characters right.  

Exactly, story comes first, everything else should come second, and that does mean that sometimes fan expectations may have to be challenged, but there is a sort of structural integrity to what makes a good story and compelling characters, and that is often not respected. Riri and Cassie are similar examples of the same problem, too much too fast, creating cut out characters to which the audience has no time and no plausible reason to connect.

I did not like Quantumania, so I had even less to invest in Cassie, but I did overall like Wakanda, and Riri was too much too fast, in the end I couldn't make a connection with the character. And imo that was a problem that was easily fixable, they just had to dial her down and slow it up a bit. She could have  been presented more modestly as a brilliant and promising student, ignored and overlooked by academia, who happened to stumble upon something big (vibranium detector? I think?) who  suddenly gets swept into a world of intrigue. She didn't have to be a universal genius with an Iron Man suit ready to be a superhero at a moment's notice etc...way way too much and it punched a big hole in the movie...in too much of a hurry....this hurts the character, if you are looking to introduce us to a strong female lead for the future, great, but take the time to make her a real person. 

....this defines a lot of what I haven't  liked about the recent movies...one of the reasons I'm not  a fan of "multi-verse" "time-travelling" etc it just becomes a convenient excuse for throwing greater numbers of new and old  heroes  at the screen at ever greater velocities....they need to slow the whole thing down...

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:09 PM, drotto said:

Biggest problem is they stopped writing characters with actual story arcs or flaws.  When we get a new character, they are already, the smartest, the most powerful, lack any significant character flaws, and are already the best in their given talent set or power set.  They are written so they do not need to change. They never need to earn anything, we are just supposed to like and support them, because they are the next greatest thing. Before, the characters always had flaws.  They always needed to improve and grow. 

 

Now when they are introduced the story arc always seems to be, you always could do this, you just needed to believe in yourself. That's it.  That applies to America, Riri, Shuri, Capitan Marvel,  new Hawkeye, and on and on. That story gets really boring when told repeatedly. 

You hit a homerun with this post. Disney Marvel became boring. Was all in with Wanda Vision  and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, than after Loki, Moon Knight and She-Hulk I asked myself why am I watching this stuff? So many better entertainment alternatives. 

[Jaydogrules]

On 3/15/2023 at 4:09 PM, drotto said:

Biggest problem is they stopped writing characters with actual story arcs or flaws.  When we get a new character, they are already, the smartest, the most powerful, lack any significant character flaws, and are already the best in their given talent set or power set.  They are written so they do not need to change. They never need to earn anything, we are just supposed to like and support them, because they are the next greatest thing. Before, the characters always had flaws.  They always needed to improve and grow. 

 

Now when they are introduced the story arc always seems to be, you always could do this, you just needed to believe in yourself. That's it.  That applies to America, Riri, Shuri, Capitan Marvel,  new Hawkeye, and on and on. That story gets really boring when told repeatedly. 

Yes.  Coming to realize how amazing and perfect you always were is not a legitimate "hero's journey".  It's tiresome and obnoxious at this point.  

-J.

[TupennyConan]

Let's review all of the Disney 2020-2023 films & see if there's a common theme [Lightyear comes to mind]. Could someone post a list, please?

[thegiftedone45]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:48 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Yes.  Coming to realize how amazing and perfect you always were is not a legitimate "hero's journey".  It's tiresome and obnoxious at this point.  

-J.

Are you kidding me that was the best part of Captain Marvel.  Just showing her standing up every time was historic character storytelling.  It's why the next movie will break records....

[drotto]

On 3/17/2023 at 12:05 PM, thegiftedone45 said:

Are you kidding me that was the best part of Captain Marvel.  Just showing her standing up every time was historic character storytelling.  It's why the next movie will break records....

My favorite part was that Captian Marvel showed basically no emotions through the entire film, yet they continuously stressed that her not controlling her emotions was what was holding her back.   

Ummmmm, Ok?

[drotto]

The other shoe drops on the MCU

 

https://movieweb.com/all-confirmed-marvel-tv-shows-lose-their-disney-release-windows/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=EchoBox-MW&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3ppQMqEL1bRZrBeVexGg4O3FbF8xZLvostP8oeoERWisuC9PwSKOmvBKM#Echobox=1679077573

[jsilverjanet]

On 3/15/2023 at 2:14 PM, TupennyConan said:

I'm generous with the ladies

[jsilverjanet]

i think everyone focuses on the "politics" of the movies but to me that's a minor issue

the issue is the writing, everything is comedy now.

I blame Thor Ragnarok. That was the beginning of the end.

"Don't know what to do with a character, make him/her a joke"

 

 

[RedRaven]

On 3/17/2023 at 4:46 PM, jsilverjanet said:

You are definitely following the arrow of time in the wrong direction in regards to the pursuits of Tupennova.

[media_junkie]

On 3/17/2023 at 5:49 PM, jsilverjanet said:

i think everyone focuses on the "politics" of the movies but to me that's a minor issue

the issue is the writing, everything is comedy now.

I blame Thor Ragnarok. That was the beginning of the end.

"Don't know what to do with a character, make him/her a joke"

 

 

Can you imagine "Captain America: Winter Soldier" done now?  ugh.  It is my favorite Marvel movie, but if it was made now I'd probably cry.  

Fury bleeding out in CA's living room, "Hyuk Hyuk, don't stain my floor!"