June 2023 Heritage Signature Auction #7340 4 4

[Michael Browning]

On 4/23/2023 at 6:19 PM, cstojano said:

Serious question, do Frazetta paintings have pencils under them? I have watched a few "how to" videos by modern fantasy artists and am surprised how common this seems to be. It seems a bit like cheating to me, in a way. (note: am not a painter).

My oil doesn’t have pencils under it. He did a lot of prelims. I have a pencil prelim and a watercolor prelim and it is colored over the pencils.

[grapeape]

On 4/23/2023 at 10:47 AM, Wolvie_Fan said:

Using references/models/swiping, isn't really a new practice. This was being practiced over 500 years ago----

We had subways 500 years ago? I guess so, I mean that lovely lady is a dead ringer 

[bernoulli]

On 4/23/2023 at 11:08 PM, steve9999 said:

"But there are much 'better things" out there for the prices he commands." 

Respectfully, I don't even know where to start. I am sure as you site examples of those "better things," there will be many people who will disagree with your selections.

I'm reminded of the ancient Greek proverb, "Opinions are like assh*les,"....everybody has one."

And where did I write that it was anything but my opinion? 

I don't dislike Frazetta. I think he is overrated, though. IMHO, of course. I am not trying to convince anyone. I am sharing my view. And no, I am not equating quality with price. My point is that nostalgia is such a powerful drug that makes people pay millions for genre works that are not comparable to other stuff out there. I even pointed out some flaws in his "masterpiece" to support my OPINION that he is overrated.  

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by bernoulli
quote mistake.

[grapeape]

“When I painted Death Dealer and Silver Warrior back to back, I had been sitting on my laurels, just going through the motions. Then there was a rumor that really disturbed me. People were saying I was washed up and that I hadn’t produced anything in years. That was the loyalty I got? It made me decide to crush them and show them the old spirit. I sat down and bam, Death Dealer and Silver Warrior were born. They were both better than anything I had ever created before. It’s a crazy game I like to play” - Frank Frazetta .
Death Dealer 1 (1973) oil on masonite

Whatever this would auction for, say 5 years from now, there is nothing in the fine art world I would desire more at the same price. Nostalgia sure. But I can't think of a better cultural representation then this one. This one will be remembered for centuries to come. It's that damn good and it will speak to the people of the future. Death comes for us all. This image is the last thing we'll all see before moving on to our place in eternity .

I'm sure of it. No I can't prove it. Don't ask me to. 💀 

 

⚰️ 🍇 🦍 

 

 

 

 

[vodou]

Totally quit on the foreground ☹️ …Hoffman wouldn’t have.

[batman_fan]

On 4/22/2023 at 5:40 PM, Bronty said:

I think that happens any time someone gets to that level of regard.      There's always going to be those that weren't exposed to the work in the right manner or what have and don't get the appeal.    For example, search up my posts from 15-20 years ago and I'm talking about how I don't get the love for Charles Schulz.

That's because, having been born in 1975, my exposure to Schulz was of the 20 years of Peppermint Patty and Marcie excruciatingly unfunny material at the end of his career.

It wasn't until the fantagraphics reprints came out and I was able to read the 50s, 60s and 70s works that I said to myself  - this isn't just a great strip, this is THE great strip.    And now I sing Schulz's praises

 

My introduction to Schulz was when my older brother brought home some books from the library that reprinted old strips.  They were awesome I thought.  When I started to read them in the paper in the early 70s, I thought they were great too.  I am not sure when it shifted but I think it was when I no longer had time to read the strip.  College was all Bloom County and later Calvin and Hobbs

[tth2]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:56 PM, grapeape said:

I sat down and bam, Death Dealer and Silver Warrior were born.

Two of my favorite Frazettas. 

[tth2]

On 4/24/2023 at 10:17 PM, batman_fan said:

When I started to read them in the paper in the early 70s, I thought they were great too.

I started reading them about the same time you did, and was never that impressed by the strip.  Not so coincidentally, I think that's when Woodstock started featuring more and more.  

Fortunately our school library had collections of the old strips and I discovered what a great strip it was.  There was one sequence where Charlie Brown kept procrastinating on a homework assignment and the final image was of him looking like a zombie after pulling an all-nighter to get it in, which makes me laugh to this day.

This is why I focus on the early years of a strip in collecting strip art, because that's when they tended to be at their best.  After all, if a strip wasn't good at the beginning, it wouldn't have been picked up by more papers and become a national success.  It's also really hard for any creator to maintain a high standard for multiple decades, particularly a humor strip, hence the genius of Watterson to call it a day at his peak rather than after the inevitable slide.

Also, focusing on a strip's early years increases the chances that the creator was doing the actual art and writing, as opposed to farming out the grunt work to ghost artists (and maybe writers) after they became rich and successful.

 

[MrBedrock]

On 4/24/2023 at 9:36 AM, tth2 said:

On 4/23/2023 at 11:56 PM, grapeape said:

I sat down and bam, Death Dealer and Silver Warrior were born.

Two of my favorite Frazettas. 

Mine as well. But the size of Death Dealer was a shocker to me. After seeing it large on the side of so many vans in the '70s it was weird to see it in person. It is really small.

[gregreece]

My first exposure to Frazetta wasn't a comic book (even though I has been into comics for a few years), but the Molly Hatchet album cover that came out in 1978. I'm not a sci-fi/fantasy art fan for the most part but I covet Death Dealer with every fiber in my being. 

[batman_fan]

My 1st Frazetta exposure was old paperback book covers (and Boris as well).  I then found those paperback collections of his work and use to scan them all the time.  This is Book 2 from the series.  I think I have 1 through 3.

[Bronty]

On 4/24/2023 at 11:22 AM, MrBedrock said:

Mine as well. But the size of Death Dealer was a shocker to me. After seeing it large on the side of so many vans in the '70s it was weird to see it in person. It is really small.

how small are we talking?

And yeah, comic pages the sizes are easy to predict.   Paintings can be any size, and they all look the same size on a jpg onscreen where in real life they can be vastly different.

[MrBedrock]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:28 PM, Bronty said:

how small are we talking?

And yeah, comic pages the sizes are easy to predict.   Paintings can be any size, and they all look the same size on a jpg onscreen where in real life they can be vastly different.

I don't have the exact dimensions but it is something like 11w X 14h.

[Bronty]

On 4/24/2023 at 1:53 PM, MrBedrock said:

I don't have the exact dimensions but it is something like 11w X 14h.

Yeesh.

And after you mentioned that, I noticed that the signature looks large in relation to the overall piece.

When you see what looks like a large signature onscreen its often because the signature is about the same size as always but the work itself is small making the signature look relatively larger in a jpg.

I'd still find a place to hang it mind you, but yeah 14" is getting really small for a painting, I prefer the 20-30 inch range.    Doesn't sound that different but its the difference between a laptop screen and a good size window.     Vodou will say 40 I'm sure.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Bronty

[buttock]

I've been mulling the Frazetta discussion over and I think it boils down to this.  There are people who want to tell you that he should be considered along the renaissance masters.  That over-worship on behalf of a small few does make it seem that he's overrated.  The average reasonable person probably puts him more in line with what he really is, i.e. one of the best fantasy artists ever.  But when you hear such exaggerated opinions, then they are in fact overrated.    

[buttock]

On 4/24/2023 at 4:41 AM, vodou said:

Totally quit on the foreground ☹️ …Hoffman wouldn’t have.

I've never noticed that before, but now it really stands out.  That's pretty awful.  

[Bronty]

On 4/24/2023 at 2:07 PM, buttock said:

I've been mulling the Frazetta discussion over and I think it boils down to this.  There are people who want to tell you that he should be considered along the renaissance masters.  That over-worship on behalf of a small few does make it seem that he's overrated.  The average reasonable person probably puts him more in line with what he really is, i.e. one of the best fantasy artists ever.  But when you hear such exaggerated opinions, then they are in fact overrated.    

I know what you mean.    Still, being the #1 fantasy artist of the 20th century is no small feat.   You can't be a renaissance master unless you know, you were alive in the renaissance.    He went as high as it was possible to go as an illustrator in the 70s.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Bronty

[Bronty]

On 4/24/2023 at 2:08 PM, buttock said:

I've never noticed that before, but now it really stands out.  That's pretty awful.  

Awful?

Its on purpose.

Many better illustrators, Frank included, had sparse detail at the edges of a work, and then went to town with detail at the focal point of the picture.

In this case, both the composition and the details put in and left out are built to take your eye to the tiny red slits of paint which represent the eyes.

(He could certainly paint the hell out of every rock in the foreground if he wanted to, but then you'd be looking at the rocks and not the figure, not the eyes.   )

 

And, by the way - why do you think you never noticed it before?    Because you were looking at the figure, at the small details on the armor and saddle, at the vultures which take the eye away from and then back to the figure.    

The fact you never noticed the sparse foreground is a complement to the picture.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Bronty

[batman_fan]

Frank certainly is no Sal but who is?

[JC25427N]

I miss when we talked about Garfield strips in these kind of threads