Rob Liefeld is out of his mind 4 4

[jaybuck43]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:28 PM, comix4fun said:

I welcome a discussion of all the ways Slade Wilson differs from Wade Wilson.. 

Don't forget that when Rob sent Fabian the original designs for Deadpool's, Fabian's initial response was "This is Deathstroke from the Teen Titans".

[OJ Pimpson]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:28 AM, eastbayrudy said:

Pointing out some of his not so great creations like Troll does not diminish the fact he was a very important part of comics in the 90's and today. Deadpool is very different from Deathstroke and is a HUGE part of pop culture today. Whether he was inspired by Deathstroke of another character does not really matter. If you want to do that, we can probably list several characters that might have taken inspiration from another character. As far as Lee having mind blowing art??? Speak for yourself  because I %100 disagree on that claim. 

Absolutely reasonable to disagree. Taste and art are very subjective. You prefer Liefeld’s work and I prefer Lee’s

 

[shadroch]

It's not that I prefer Rob's art over Jim Lee's, as I don't care for either.  I think Rob has been more influential in the hobby/industry.  There is room for disagreement.

[paqart]

On 4/7/2023 at 3:51 AM, Cman429 said:

Oh gee, Liefeld bashing, how original. It amazes me how people have no problem with Jim Lee’s outrageous prices when all he’s contributed to comics are awful “redesigns,” running DC into the ground and a bunch of forgettable $1 bin 90s trash. What has Rob contributed? I dunno, Xforce, Cable, and one of the most popular comic characters ever created, Deadpool… I wouldn’t worry about Rob setting the bar on prices too high when there’s a lot of guys far less important or accomplished than him who’ve already done that 

I'm not too crazy about Liefeld's art. I even used it as an example of poor anatomy in an anatomy class I taught in the Netherlands. That said, and to my surprise, I agree with you. Liefeld's contributions to the comics medium are greater than Lee's even if Lee's art is more polished.

[paqart]

On 4/9/2023 at 3:07 PM, Prince Namor said:

It did???

Haven't we all heard enough stories about the history of this hobby to know there was plenty of market manipulation going on throughout the years, from dealers, from publishers, and even from Overstreet?

And signatures on comics (though like you say, much more so INSIDE of them) was a thing long before CGC, the same as there were people pressing (granted, using a stack of encyclopedias) long before it actually became an industry. These parts of the hobby grew out of the way people collected. 

Someone just found a way to monetize those ideas and make money off of it, the same way someone once realized they could make money off of selling back issues of comics. 

In 1978, I went to my first comic con in San Francisco. It was called BayCon IV. Among the guests, there were Frank Brunner, Steve Leialoha, and Jim Starlin. I got signatures from all of them. In Starlin's case, I also got a signed sketch of Warlock for five dollars. The signatures were all on the margins of the first pages of the comics I asked them to sign. The signatures were all free.

At the time, I didn't care too much about signatures but at the same time seriously admired these three artists. The signatures were my way of remembering that I met them on that day and they signed my comics to prove it. When showing the comics to friends, I could point out the signatures and then tell them what it was like to meet the artists themselves. That is what those signatures were worth to me. For that reason, though I had dozens of comics in my collection by each artist, I only obtained one signature apiece. I didn't need more to prove I'd met the artists.

Today I look at the prices paid for signatures and don't quite understand them. I am an artist myself, so it is possible that someday someone will pay me to sign one of the few comics I've drawn. I wouldn't say no to doing that but I still don't understand the signature phenomenon. When you get a stack of comics signed for the purpose of reselling them, the buyer does not receive an interesting personal story to go with the signature or the comic. About all he can say is that he paid a premium for a completely sterile exchange of goods: a few drops of ink for a few dozen dollars.

[revat]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:33 PM, jaybuck43 said:

On 4/22/2023 at 3:28 PM, comix4fun said:

I welcome a discussion of all the ways Slade Wilson differs from Wade Wilson.. 

Don't forget that when Rob sent Fabian the original designs for Deadpool's, Fabian's initial response was "This is Deathstroke from the Teen Titans".

One of them is ultrapopular and generally quite funny.  The other has a bad color scheme.

[roach04]

On 4/24/2023 at 9:13 PM, revat said:

One of them is ultrapopular and generally quite funny.  The other has a bad color scheme.

And when I first saw Deathstroke I said "hey it's the Taskmaster but at DC!"  But George Perez is beyond reproach imo.

And as others have said - Deadpool is great but Rob doesn't have much to do with that.  Joe Kelly - hell yeah.

[eastbayrudy]

On 4/24/2023 at 1:29 PM, Hot Nickels said:

Absolutely reasonable to disagree. Taste and art are very subjective. You prefer Liefeld’s work and I prefer Lee’s

 

Well that Cap is not the best example  I prefer his New Mutants- Xforce stuff. 

[eastbayrudy]

On 4/24/2023 at 3:20 PM, paqart said:

I'm not too crazy about Liefeld's art. I even used it as an example of poor anatomy in an anatomy class I taught in the Netherlands. That said, and to my surprise, I agree with you. Liefeld's contributions to the comics medium are greater than Lee's even if Lee's art is more polished.

Agreed. He is not the most technical artist, and I will agree Lee is for sure the more precise artist when it comes to anatomy, but when I was buying comics in the 90's...perfect anatomy was not what I was looking for. Just some awesome flashy artwork with big guns and explosions  Leifeld definitely had the more entertaining and visually pleasing art for me. I think a lot of us can agree hence why he sold millions of comics back then. Something about his style that just drew people in. 

[Ryan.]

I think we've lost the narrative if we're saying Jim Lee draws precise anatomy. 

[Cman429]

On 4/25/2023 at 3:06 PM, Ryan. said:

I think we've lost the narrative if we're saying Jim Lee draws precise anatomy. 

Don’t waste your time trying to reason with insufferable Lee fanboys. They’re why he can charge $500 for three sloppy pen strokes and call it a “remark” but then start lame threads like this bc Liefeld has the “gall” to charge $40 extra for a beautifully rendered art signature. We all know you can take any sacred cow - Mignola, Perez, Byrne, Kirby - and find examples of ridiculous anatomy. That’s what comic art is. But hey it’s funner to trot out the same 3 Liefeld gifs fanboys have been posting since rec.art.comics was a thing and pretend Rob didn’t create the third most important character in the entire Marvel Universe to earn extra nerd cred or something. 

[OJ Pimpson]

I have to hand it to Rob Liefeld, to actually care enough about his legacy to create a bunch of burner accounts in the CGC forums is truly impressive. Pushing the arguement that despite not having a fraction of Jim Lee’s talent, that he is somehow more important to the industry because he “created” Deadpool is a great touch. 
 

Can we just all agree that the Deadpool Liefeld created was a sh*tty and blatant character swipe. And that the character was fully reimagined by more thoughtful creators in the years that followed? 
 

If we are giving  Liefeld credit for the current iteration of the Deadpool character, then we also have to give Stan Lee Credit for creating Spider-Gwen. 
 

 

[paqart]

On 4/25/2023 at 3:06 PM, Ryan. said:

I think we've lost the narrative if we're saying Jim Lee draws precise anatomy. 

Where anatomy is concerned, few comic book artists get it right, even the good ones. The artist who most consistently draws anatomical features almost correctly (in my opinion) is Gil Kane. This does not mean his work is perfect in this regard, it isn't. For drawings from memory of fantastically-muscled heroes, it is very closeThe two Romitas are an interesting contrast. Romita senior has a good sense of volume but his specific anatomy is inferior to his son, Romita Jr. Neal Adams' work is more realistic than Kane's but he didn't seem to know what the muscles were there for. Kane understood the mechanical purpose of every muscle. That is what gave him an edge.

For fun, here are some of my anatomical studies. My apologies that they aren't superheroes but that would be unusual for true anatomy studies.

[SpineTic]

Enjoy! No thanks required.

 

 

 

[SpineTic]

In case you missed out on getting one of Rob Liefeld’s Chiseled Signatures, we’ve got great news!!! Rob has agreed to open up an additional number of spots for fans to grab some more of his awesome Chiseled Signatures! Don’t wait though, because these will likely sell out fast. If you want to grab yours, be sure to head to CGCcomics.com and fill out a new submission form now!

 

[OJ Pimpson]

On 4/26/2023 at 4:14 PM, ak47po said:

In case you missed out on getting one of Rob Liefeld’s Chiseled Signatures, we’ve got great news!!! Rob has agreed to open up an additional number of spots for fans to grab some more of his awesome Chiseled Signatures! Don’t wait though, because these will likely sell out fast. If you want to grab yours, be sure to head to CGCcomics.com and fill out a new submission form now!

 

Rob Liefeld ‘Chiseled’ signatures selling out at $210 a pop has caused me to lose complete faith in humanity. 

[Readcomix]

Every time I opened a book with Liefeld art inside I felt chiseled.

[eastbayrudy]

On 4/25/2023 at 12:06 PM, Ryan. said:

I think we've lost the narrative if we're saying Jim Lee draws precise anatomy. 

Well you know what I mean...more accurate. Liefeld was more exaggerated,but much more cool looking  

[eastbayrudy]

On 4/25/2023 at 1:44 PM, Hot Nickels said:

I have to hand it to Rob Liefeld, to actually care enough about his legacy to create a bunch of burner accounts in the CGC forums is truly impressive. Pushing the arguement that despite not having a fraction of Jim Lee’s talent, that he is somehow more important to the industry because he “created” Deadpool is a great touch. 
 

Can we just all agree that the Deadpool Liefeld created was a sh*tty and blatant character swipe. And that the character was fully reimagined by more thoughtful creators in the years that followed? 
 

If we are giving  Liefeld credit for the current iteration of the Deadpool character, then we also have to give Stan Lee Credit for creating Spider-Gwen. 
 

 

Speak for yourself. A fraction of Lee's talent?  come on man... again I dont get all this talk of Lee being so great, but you don't seem to like Rob so I guess different strokes for different folks. Personally, I enjoyed Rob's artwork and characters much more over the years. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/27/2023 at 11:40 AM, eastbayrudy said:

Speak for yourself. A fraction of Lee's talent?  come on man... again I dont get all this talk of Lee being so great, but you don't seem to like Rob so I guess different strokes for different folks. Personally, I enjoyed Rob's artwork and characters much more over the years. 

Lol I feel you, I prefer Lee but you have a healthy perspective in what you've mentioned. I wouldn't take the criticism of lifeld too personal. Lee outshines a bit too imo, but more importantly they both have their merits. I would almost tend to think they are so vehemently opposed because they are so similar in scope. Both have created and flourished, and here were all for the comics. When there is a thread titled this way, it does feel one sided

But you've not made a misnomer or farfetched argument etc haha. I liked Leifeld for what he's done, Jim Lee was in the same boat with image, and they both were just trying TO make it and I argue they both DID.

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM