Problems with CGC grading a CLEANED and pressed book with a purple label. My thoughts. 7 7

[joeypost]

[joeypost]

[joeypost]

I am getting my comic torture setup completed this weekend. Lights, camera, peroxide. Will post before and after pictures and observations. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:23 PM, joeypost said:

torture setup completed this weekend. Lights, camera, peroxide. 

Sounds like my last weekend.  

[mephistopheles]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:44 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Generally, this guy puts out very good content. I do think he should have considered the fact the books were cleaned before hand. He does not really divulge what his tactics to clean were so if wet materials or chemicals of some sort or other products were used, we don't know. I also noted that, if they were just dry cleaned by him, then perhaps it was the previous owner who chemically cleaned them. I think finding out where he got the books would help determine that. If they were all purchased from the same seller, I think it stands to reason that person cleaned them in some way CGC could detect. If they were bought from multiple sellers, the chances that he grabbed several books that were chemically cleaned seems low. This means it has something to do with his method.

Finally, it is possible that an amateur grader thought they detected something or were surprised by the quality of the dry clean job and decided "hey this looks too sharp, must be chemically done so I will give it the purple label". That should NOT happen but it is a possible outcome in this specific scenario.

@ardeaton already posted his communication about this early in the thread:

"He aslo had this to say:

@ImproveCollectingComics

12 minutes ago

I got them from multiple sources on e-bay, and 3 of them had a story behind them. One was from a collection passed down to a son. Two were from an elderly gentleman who bought them in the 60's and had them in his collection untouched since the 70's. They had obviously never been cleaned or pressed. Out of the 7 books, they had very little soiling but all but one had some staining. I only dry cleaned with an eraser and absorene, but in a limited way. There is still some soiling that I thought were in fragile areas so I left them alone. The notes will confirm that there is staining and thus no chemicals or whitening used."

 

Maybe an ebay seller made up the story about the history, in fact that makes me kind of suspicious. My guess is 1 or 2 showed obvious signs of being treated, and this caused CGC suspicion that they all were because they were submitted together. It seems unlikely that 6 of 7 books purchased from different sellers were ALL secretly treated. 

 

 

[comicginger1789]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:45 PM, mephistopheles said:

@ardeaton already posted his communication about this early in the thread:

"He aslo had this to say:

@ImproveCollectingComics

12 minutes ago

I got them from multiple sources on e-bay, and 3 of them had a story behind them. One was from a collection passed down to a son. Two were from an elderly gentleman who bought them in the 60's and had them in his collection untouched since the 70's. They had obviously never been cleaned or pressed. Out of the 7 books, they had very little soiling but all but one had some staining. I only dry cleaned with an eraser and absorene, but in a limited way. There is still some soiling that I thought were in fragile areas so I left them alone. The notes will confirm that there is staining and thus no chemicals or whitening used."

 

Maybe an ebay seller made up the story about the history, in fact that makes me kind of suspicious. My guess is 1 or 2 showed obvious signs of being treated, and this caused CGC suspicion that they all were because they were submitted together. It seems unlikely that 6 of 7 books purchased from different sellers were ALL secretly treated. 

 

 

Yes that does seem very unlikely....so it must go down to how he is working on his books. As long as he was honest about his cleaning methods (and hey maybe absorene they can detect because if memory serves me it leaves a smell) then perhaps the grader was just overly grumpy or felt like "hey this looks too good, I think I should dock it". Which is very big problem and not out of the realm of possibility since we are dealing with humans. 

[mephistopheles]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:38 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Yes that does seem very unlikely....so it must go down to how he is working on his books. As long as he was honest about his cleaning methods (and hey maybe absorene they can detect because if memory serves me it leaves a smell) then perhaps the grader was just overly grumpy or felt like "hey this looks too good, I think I should dock it". Which is very big problem and not out of the realm of possibility since we are dealing with humans. 

He gets a lot of 9.8 blues with his pressing dry-cleaning, so I doubt it's something he did. Plus absorbene is dry cleaning, not wet and as far as I know pretty standard practice and acceptable.. 

[comicginger1789]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:46 AM, mephistopheles said:

He gets a lot of 9.8 blues with his pressing dry-cleaning, so I doubt it's something he did. Plus absorbene is dry cleaning, not wet and as far as I know pretty standard practice and acceptable.. 

Yeah I have never used personally and the presser/cleaner I regard highly doesn't because it can give off smell (he said). So again, either that played a roll or, very possibly, a crusty grader who because they could not explain the solid cleaning job, decided he must be missing something and slapped it with a purple. Which is wrong. But how could we ever know unless CGC showed a willingness to want to look into it?

Maybe the guy from the videos should be connected here, have a chat with Mike and see if something can be learned... 

Edited May 25, 2023 by comicginger1789

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:48 PM, comicginger1789 said:

Yeah I have never used personally and the presser/cleaner I regard highly doesn't because it can give off smell (he said). So again, either that played a roll or, very possibly, a crusty grader who because they could not explain the solid cleaning job, decided he must be missing something and slapped it with a purple. Which is wrong. But how could we ever know unless CGC showed a willingness to want to look into it?

Maybe the guy from the videos should be connected here, have a chat with Mike and see if something can be learned... 

Some people have reported Absorbene leaving behind a residue and/or smell. There are also reviews of it attracting mold.

[comicginger1789]

On 5/25/2023 at 5:33 PM, Fraggy said:

This has never happened, that'ss BS propaganda started by people trying to pass off restored books.

I mean I doubt CGC would do that. I also don’t see this guy lying for any real reason as his material has always been genuine. It’s either he’s lying, CGC did what I said or they smelt the absorene, felt it was chemical related and rightly graded the book (even though it is possible to clean with that product and have it go undetected)

[mephistopheles]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:28 PM, Fraggy said:

Really now? Absorbene isn't a chemical? 

Nice passive-aggressive effort to put words in my mouth, but technically even water is a chemical. I think the smell is more from Absorbene putty, but most people only use the absorbene dry sponges.

[mephistopheles]

If CGC has indeed tightened its standards for cover cleaning, there's a lot of high $ value blues out there that better not be submitted for reslabing or gambled on with a CPR. 

[namisgr]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:46 AM, mephistopheles said:

He gets a lot of 9.8 blues with his pressing dry-cleaning, so I doubt it's something he did. Plus absorbene is dry cleaning, not wet and as far as I know pretty standard practice and acceptable.. 

It's not as 'dry' as you may think: Absorene® is composed of flour, salt, water with small amounts of mineral spirits and colorant.

The mineral oil and fine putty-like debris, if present, would be indicators of cover cleaning and additive in nature.

[comicginger1789]

Turns out the guy also adds moisture and is using a light box. So his “I only dry clean” line is obviously false…he claims he’s not doing chemicals but he is doing a variety of other things that to my understanding, CGC would label with a purple label if detected. Granted sometimes you can get a pass on some of these other methods when they get missed but don’t complain when a savvy grader detects them

Edited June 5, 2023 by comicginger1789

[mephistopheles]

CGC is definitely getting better at spotting wet cleaning. At least this guy admits his guilt, but he raises a good point. What about all the wet cleaned books that passed as blue before CGC started catching on? 

 

[The Lions Den]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:51 PM, mephistopheles said:

CGC is definitely getting better at spotting wet cleaning. At least this guy admits his guilt, but he raises a good point. What about all the wet cleaned books that passed as blue before CGC started catching on?

Unless someone resubmits them or cracks them out, they'll spend the rest of their existence as blue label books. It'd be pretty tough to tell they were wet cleaned by looking at them through the holder...   

[The Lions Den]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:48 PM, comicginger1789 said:

Yeah I have never used personally and the presser/cleaner I regard highly doesn't because it can give off smell (he said). So again, either that played a roll or, very possibly, a crusty grader who because they could not explain the solid cleaning job, decided he must be missing something and slapped it with a purple. Which is wrong. But how could we ever know unless CGC showed a willingness to want to look into it?

I'm sure CGC graders are aware of what's going on---it's usually just a matter of taking the time to properly diagnose it and enter the information onto the label and into the notes.

Time and effort, my friend...time and effort.