CGC Announces Price and Policy Changes 9 9

[Kevin76]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:13 PM, JollyComics said:

Who is that?  I know many dealers not this particular name.

 

J & S Collectibles from CT.   He does Little Giant Show, Baltimore, Terrific Con, Used to do C2E2. Boston Shows  

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

Presently, I only submit for my collection. However, if that ever changes I will have to reevaluate because what I typically submit currently only garners about 50 cents in "profit" per slab on a very good day.

[alexgross.com]

it's a real shame that any attempt at establishing legit competition for CGC in the realm of comic grading has thus far mostly failed. i read these threads every year as CGC continues to raise prices on everything and i see the vast number of unhappy customers. and yet, we have nowhere else to go. 

it's nice to have a monopoly if you're the company. 

i don't play the grading game myself but i understand that for many sellers/dealers this is a major part of how to generate income. i would be absolutely infuriated at the continued gouging and slow turnaround times that has been taking place ever since the new overlords took over. 

[lou_fine]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:50 AM, alexgross.com said:

i would be absolutely infuriated at the continued gouging and slow turnaround times that has been taking place ever since the new overlords took over. 

Are you really to convince us here this wouldn't have happened without the new ownership group in place?  

If so, all you need do is look at their history of price increases and it's quite evident that these were a regular ongoing feature even with the old ownership group.    

Edited April 21, 2023 by lou_fine

[toro]

Prices are up on everything including material and labor.  I wish we had moderns still at $14, but I wish new comics still cost .12 and not $3.99 to $5.99 on average. 

[Sigur Ros]

On 4/18/2023 at 3:56 PM, JollyComics said:

Voldemort is more likely to be blamed for causing the price hikes.  

Also for causing... free grader's notes, QR codes on the label, newsstand designation and hopefully a stronger, clearer, Newton ring-free, debris-free case some day.

[troydivision1]

Now...if only they'd start grading treasury-sized books for the additional source of revenue...

[MrBedrock]

I think they are raising the prices on the pulp grading tiers before they have even started grading pulps.

 

[RedSkull]

I also will not renew my membership in May.  I have (Elite - $150 credit and 10% discount on the submission online).

[BigDaddy1]

I’m going down to $25 per year if only to at least have the option to send a couple books I want to get slabbed per year. The choice to have all books over $1000 have a minimum charge of $150 for grading does not sit right to me. 

I get it that prices are going up but this feels egregious! 

Edited April 21, 2023 by BigDaddy1

[asteroid-comix]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:50 AM, alexgross.com said:

it's a real shame that any attempt at establishing legit competition for CGC in the realm of comic grading has thus far mostly failed. i read these threads every year as CGC continues to raise prices on everything and i see the vast number of unhappy customers. and yet, we have nowhere else to go. 

it's nice to have a monopoly if you're the company. 

i don't play the grading game myself but i understand that for many sellers/dealers this is a major part of how to generate income. i would be absolutely infuriated at the continued gouging and slow turnaround times that has been taking place ever since the new overlords took over. 

CGC is just milking the industry at this point. The price increase is just a poke in the eye from that point. They do not care about customer service or any of us. If you think I'm wrong, two points.

First, take a look at how they classify turn around times. I engaged in a friendly debate about this just today with two different employees. Their turn around measures from the point at which they enter books into the system until they ship. Interesting, considering that books are sitting before being opened for about two weeks. So, as a consumer, do I discount those two weeks or is that part of my experienced turn around time? It's the latter. Their turn around measures a portion of their internal processes, without regard to the consumer's experience. It's not the turn around the consumer experiences, it's an internally focused metric that they try to spin to explain where things are roughly (poorly) in their process. 

Second, I pointed out to someone today how poor the practice of putting "WK" or "EX" on the outside of a box is as a process. If anyone working in a shipping center along the path to Sarasota sees the CGC address and the "WK" along the box, they instantly know...high dollar comic. At least $1,000, and more than likely more based on the size and weight of the box. We, my friends, can call that a flashing red light for theft. Again, this whole process is setup for their internal workings, without regard to the consumer. 

Until another comes into the market to force disruption, there will not be change. The problem is that CGC has such a brand identity that it makes it hard for a competitor to come in and disrupt the market unless they really have their act together. Anyone entering the market has to contend with the IP of brand recognition and the perceived trust that goes along with it for CGC. Even with the shenanigans with the C2E2 book last year, they have avoided the trust factor with the masses (beyond the those that see through it on the boards). Voldemort had a chance to disrupt the market, because they had people that knew the industry, but they failed because their business acumen around operations was just as bad (sorry to anyone involved...).

It will take three things to unseat CGC and force real change. First, a clever marketing program that leads with transparency (TikTok, FB, and Twitter). Tell what the firm is about and how it is going to go about it's business. Second, they need a highly effective and transparent operations. This means well-paid employees, staffing/capacity plans, forecasting, strategic plans (which understand consumer-centric business), quality control experts and processes (that get to real consistency), and leaders that are engaged with the collecting community. For goodness sake, hire an operations leader, not a person from the collectible space. Last, an innovative approach to the casing of comics. With what can be done with acrylics, lasers, and UV printing, I am shocked someone has not already come up with some really cool alternatives in their basement. To be honest, the startup cost wouldn't be that great. People often cite sticking with CGC because of their design when compared to that other guy. Given what it looks like and could look like, this is shocking. 


 

Edited April 21, 2023 by asteroid-comix

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 4/21/2023 at 7:14 PM, asteroid-comix said:

CGC is just milking the industry at this point. The price increase is just a poke in the eye from that point. They do not care about customer service or any of us. If you think I'm wrong, two points.

First, take a look at how they classify turn around times. I engaged in a friendly debate about this just today with two different employees. Their turn around measures from the point at which they enter books into the system until they ship. Interesting, considering that books are sitting before being opened for about two weeks. So, as a consumer, do I discount those two weeks or is that part of my experienced turn around time? It's the latter. Their turn around measures a portion of their internal processes, without regard to the consumer's experience. It's not the turn around the consumer experiences, it's an internally focused metric that they try to spin to explain where things are roughly (poorly) in their process. 

Second, I pointed out to someone today how poor the practice of putting "WK" or "EX" on the outside of a box is as a process. If anyone working in a shipping center along the path to Sarasota sees the CGC address and the "WK" along the box, they instantly know...high dollar comic. At least $1,000, and more than likely more based on the size and weight of the box. We, my friends, can call that a flashing red light for theft. Again, this whole process is setup for their internal workings, without regard to the consumer. 

Until another comes into the market to force disruption, there will not be change. The problem is that CGC has such a brand identity that it makes it hard for a competitor to come in and disrupt the market unless they really have their act together. Anyone entering the market has to contend with the IP of brand recognition and the perceived trust that goes along with it for CGC. Even with the shenanigans with the C2E2 book last year, they have avoided the trust factor with the masses (beyond the those that see through it on the boards). Voldemort had a chance to disrupt the market, because they had people that knew the industry, but they failed because their business acumen around operations was just as bad (sorry to anyone involved...).

It will take three things to unseat CGC and force real change. First, a clever marketing program that leads with transparency (TikTok, FB, and Twitter). Tell what the firm is about and how it is going to go about it's business. Second, they need a highly effective and transparent operations. This means well-paid employees, staffing/capacity plans, forecasting, strategic plans (which understand consumer-centric business), quality control experts and processes (that get to real consistency), and leaders that are engaged with the collecting community. For goodness sake, hire an operations leader, not a person from the collectible space. Last, an innovative approach to the casing of comics. With what can be done with acrylics, lasers, and UV printing, I am shocked someone has not already come up with some really cool alternatives in their basement. To be honest, the startup cost wouldn't be that great. People often cite sticking with CGC because of their design when compared to that other guy. Given what it looks like and could look like, this is shocking. 


 

I don’t think it’s going to be another grading company that will usurp CGC.  I believe their own incompetence will continue to dilute the faith in their product, and many will just go back to collecting raw books from reliable sources like MCS.  This age of encapsulation won’t last IMO

[Gaard]

On 4/21/2023 at 8:26 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I don’t think it’s going to be another grading company that will usurp CGC.  I believe their own incompetence will continue to dilute the faith in their product, and many will just go back to collecting raw books from reliable sources like MCS.  This age of encapsulation won’t last IMO

Agreed. I'm far from business-savvy, but I don't think you need to be a brain surgeon to understand that businesses won't survive if they consistently put out a shoddy product. Especially if they don't care that they put out a shoddy product.

[DC#]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:26 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I don’t think it’s going to be another grading company that will usurp CGC.  I believe their own incompetence will continue to dilute the faith in their product, and many will just go back to collecting raw books from reliable sources like MCS.  This age of encapsulation won’t last IMO

For whatever percentage of the comic market looks at books as an investment (even if they also think of themselves as collectors) - there is probably going to be a desire for 3rd party validation/affirmation.   And CGC is the equivalent of the American dollar in the world of currencies (and many counties hate having the US dollar in that position but they too are stuck). 
 

[Gaard]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:03 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Also for causing... free grader's notes, QR codes on the label, newsstand designation and hopefully a stronger, clearer, Newton ring-free, debris-free case some day.

Yeah, it sure wasn't CGC who did all those things. In fact, besides starting this whole grading of comics, what innovations (new ideas) has CGC done that has been beneficial to it's customers?

[SeniorSurfer]

On 4/21/2023 at 7:14 PM, asteroid-comix said:

The problem is that CGC has such a brand identity that it makes it hard for a competitor to come in and disrupt the market unless they really have their act together

I liken them to eBay, another juggernaut that has basically cornered the market in collectible online sales due to its longevity (outlasting all other competitors), world-wide reach and extensive customer base (though Amazon has made hay with retail, I refer here only to the collectibles market).  As here, everyone similarly protests when prices are raised only to continue using them.

On 4/21/2023 at 7:14 PM, asteroid-comix said:

It will take three things to unseat CGC and force real change.

Something additional that would do the trick, and is likely tied to your original list of three:  If collectors and dealers could see consistently bettered or at least equal sales prices of books graded by said competitor.

[DC#]

On 4/22/2023 at 5:17 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

Something additional that would do the trick, and is likely tied to your original list of three:  If collectors and dealers could see consistently bettered or at least equal sales prices of books graded by said competitor.

That seems to be the case in the world of graded action figures/toys.   From what I can gather both CAS and AFA seem to be pretty similar in terms of sales performance and collector opinion.   But is also seems census data/population reports are less relevant for those collectors (neither of toy graders have census data that is useable).   Whereas I thought the robust census, at least historically, was a huge advantage for CGC.

[JollyComics]

Pardon my other rants....CGC is still working on few more areas like Quality Control, Receiving Department and Encapsulation and doesn't deserve the price hikes until all are fixed and the time management (turnarounds) is consistently improved.  Wait for one more year until everything is smooth and mistake-free then they deserve the price hikes.

[Ninja0215]

I still have my membership for now. 

[lou_fine]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:34 PM, BigDaddy1 said:

I get it that prices are going up but this feels egregious! 

Although I would tend to agree with you here, I guess it should be pointed put that the grading and slabbing of comic books is still really more of a luxury or a discretionary expenditure, as opposed to an actual necessity.  

Compared that to a case lot of 12 cans of Campbell soup which used to cost only $5.99 a case when on sale a couple of short years ago, to what they now advertised for $16.99 for the exact same case of 12 tins of Campbell soup.  

Now, that's definitely an egregious and price gouging increase, although I guess Campbell soup is also not a technical or even tasty necessity either. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by lou_fine