Not a question as much as an observation about graded comics 1 1

[Mokiguy]

I'm still fairly new to the whole comic collecting thing, but just now as I was going through a book page by page in order to assign it a  grade (for my own database), looking for completeness and soiling, coupon cutouts, page color or tears or any other interior defect, it dawned on me how silly it all seemed. I don't collect slabbed comics and have no intention of getting this one slabbed and graded, but couldn't help but think and wonder why anything other than the front and back cover mattered. Once a comic is double sealed in a holder, no one will ever see the inside again. You could fill it with 32 blank sheets of paper and nobody would ever know. And yet a book with missing pages or coupons that have been cut out or even a detached centerfold or some large tears can take a book from valuable to chump change.

Before I started collecting comics I collected (and still do) Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. They are also third party graded, but nobody cares what is on the inside of a coin, and all you see in a slab is the obverse and reverse,and that's all it's graded on. Sports cards, Stamps, paper currency, autographs ....... all these things are graded solely on what you can see, only comics and magazines are graded on things you will never see once encapsulated. 

As the headline says, that was just my thought this morning, perhaps a silly or novice thought, and I hope you don't think it too foolish of me for sharing.

[DougC]

On 4/29/2023 at 9:19 AM, Mokiguy said:

 

Before I started collecting comics I collected (and still do) Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. They are also third party graded, but nobody cares what is on the inside of a coin, and all you see in a slab is the obverse and reverse,and that's all it's graded on.

 

 

I think you are selling this short as collectors very much care what is on the inside of a coin and one of reason to slab a coin in addition to verify its grade is to also verify that it is real! There are a lot of fake Morgans coming out of china being sold for $2 a pop on wish. Instead of that 90% silver that is contained within they are cast from various pot metal but can look gorgeous. If only outside looks mattered then you wouldn't be bothered with a shiny 1878 MS-68 chunk of lead and zinc added to your collection, right?

[KCOComics]

 

I think there are two sides to this. 

CGC has been an extremely important part of our hobby.  By validating that books are complete, unrestored and providing a 3rd party grade, they've really opened up the hobby to a lot of people. In the 80s and 90s restoration was fairly common and if done well, it was undetectable to untrained eye. 

So if I'm going to spend 5 figures on a comic book and it's not CGC graded, my first question is "why not?" 

And before Stu jumps on me, I'm not saying CGC has never been fooled or made a mistake. But they've served a critical roll in growing the hobby. 

Now, the downside of CGC is even the non-key books get graded these days.  The value is placed largely on the covers and the stories between the covers get locked away. 

For me personally, I have a ton of PCH books and atomic age science fiction comics I won't get graded.  I love the stories, the interior art, the old ads and to me grading would take away from that. Grading will make them more valuable and easier to sell, so maybe some day I will. But I have no plans to sell them and will enjoy them more raw. 

I also have a large collection of graded books.  Many are keys, but I also have a high grade BA horror collection where I love the cover art and enjoy the way they look slabbed. 

So everyone is different and collect how you like. I know many people on here who crack books out of slabs as soon as they get them. 

[Mokiguy]

On 4/29/2023 at 7:27 AM, DougC said:

 

I think you are selling this short as collectors very much care what is on the inside of a coin and one of reason to slab a coin in addition to verify its grade is to also verify that it is real! There are a lot of fake Morgans coming out of china being sold for $2 a pop on wish. Instead of that 90% silver that is contained within they are cast from various pot metal but can look gorgeous. If only outside looks mattered then you wouldn't be bothered with a shiny 1878 MS-68 chunk of lead and zinc added to your collection, right?

But verifying authenticity is different that caring what's inside a coin. Of course we all want to know if what we collect is genuine. I still own 6 fake Chinese Morgans that I purchased from 6 different sellers early on in my silver dollar collecting. I don't consider them as part of my collection, just an oddity. But I don't care what's on the inside of them anymore than I care what's on the inside of a genuine Morgan or Peace dollar, I only care that's it's genuine. The silver content is irrelevant as far as numismatic value. Once a silver dollar is determined to be genuine, a silver dollar is graded on it's exterior only. If it's not genuine it's not it won't be graded. Perhaps my analogy of blank pages sent you off in the wrong direction. I should have said tears or staining or coupon cutouts or whatever shouldn't matter anymore than weight tolerances of a Morgan dollar don't matter. A brand new Morgan when minted should weigh 26.73 grams, plus or minus almost one gram. An older worn Morgan can weigh as much as two grams or even three grams less depending on how worn, and yet none new or old is graded on it's weight or silver content, only the obverse and reverse ...... what's visible once it's determined to be genuine. Perhaps a coins weight is a closer analogy to inside condition of a comic than blank pages.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Mokiguy

[Lazyboy]

On 4/29/2023 at 9:19 AM, Mokiguy said:

I'm still fairly new to the whole comic collecting thing, but just now as I was going through a book page by page in order to assign it a  grade (for my own database), looking for completeness and soiling, coupon cutouts, page color or tears or any other interior defect, it dawned on me how silly it all seemed. I don't collect slabbed comics and have no intention of getting this one slabbed and graded, but couldn't help but think and wonder why anything other than the front and back cover mattered. Once a comic is double sealed in a holder, no one will ever see the inside again. You could fill it with 32 blank sheets of paper and nobody would ever know. And yet a book with missing pages or coupons that have been cut out or even a detached centerfold or some large tears can take a book from valuable to chump change.

Before I started collecting comics I collected (and still do) Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. They are also third party graded, but nobody cares what is on the inside of a coin, and all you see in a slab is the obverse and reverse,and that's all it's graded on. Sports cards, Stamps, paper currency, autographs ....... all these things are graded solely on what you can see, only comics and magazines are graded on things you will never see once encapsulated. 

As the headline says, that was just my thought this morning, perhaps a silly or novice thought, and I hope you don't think it too foolish of me for sharing.

Well, some people actually care about comics and some people apparently don't. Coins and the other things that were third-party graded before comics are essentially two-dimensional objects and comics are not.

[Jayman]

You can’t read and enjoy the inside of a coin!

[shadroch]

You are assuming the slab will never be opened. you know what happens when you assume

[Cman429]

Yeah your looking at this the wrong way. The slab isn’t some impenetrable vault or space age time capsule that once sealed is never to be opened again. The slabbing thing serves 1 of 3 purposes. One it provides a neutral third party opinion as to condition so if you ever do sell it the buyer has assurance about things like missing coupons, centerfolds, soiling etc. I know a lot of people, myself included, who crack slabs all the time but like buying them since raw graders are notoriously dishonest. 

[Dick Pontoon]

On 4/29/2023 at 1:48 PM, shadroch said:

You are assuming the slab will never be opened. you know what happens when you assume

 

 

 

[Jordysnordy]

 

[Mokiguy]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:47 AM, Jayman said:

You can’t read and enjoy the inside of a coin!

You can't read and enjoy the inside of a comic either once it's slabbed ........ that was the whole point of my post.

[Mokiguy]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:48 AM, shadroch said:

You are assuming the slab will never be opened. you know what happens when you assume

No I'm not assuming that at all, but the whole point of my post was that the inside becomes totally irrelevant once it's slabbed. If you open it then it is no longer slabbed or technically graded, since no TPG will stand behind a grade once the slab has been opened.

[Mokiguy]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:37 AM, Lazyboy said:

Well, some people actually care about comics and some people apparently don't. Coins and the other things that were third-party graded before comics are essentially two-dimensional objects and comics are not.

I don't understand your comment, perhaps you could explain it better to  novice like me. I thought I was making the point that a comic once it is slabbed it does in fact become a two dimensional object. How is a coin any different than a comic then? If you are not counting the edge of a coin why but count the edge of a slabbed comic?

[shadroch]

The mind is like a parachute. Just dead weight if you choose not to open it.

[Dr. Balls]

I don’t think the insides are irrelevant, as they are part of the overall grade. Once a book is slabbed, you’ve paid for the service of grading and that is how it’s delivered. If you want to grade it yourself for free, that is also an option.

Once you open the slab to read the book, it is no longer guaranteed by CGC, but you - as the opener - still have the assigned grade. It can stay that grade or get worse - there’s a myriad of options for you at that point. All of which will not matter until you sell the book and need to re-grade it yourself based on how it may have changed since it was de-slabbed.

The main purpose to “grade” a book is to determine its value, as a whole - even if it’s in a holder you can’t open without damaging it. The new buyer may choose to open it, and he is entitled to an accurate description of the book in it’s entirety.

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[The Lions Den]

On 4/29/2023 at 1:55 PM, Cman429 said:

I know a lot of people, myself included, who crack slabs all the time but like buying them since some raw graders are notoriously dishonest. 

I hope you don't mind this slight modification, but I pride myself on being an honest seller of both raw and slabbed books...   

[Mokiguy]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:59 PM, shadroch said:

The mind is like a parachute. Just dead weight if you choose not to open it.

Wow, how profound ...... I'm in awe!

[LowGradeBronze]

Going back to the original post, grading for your own personal database doesn't have to be too onerous. A quick flick through for pages or coupons etc missing, check for detached cf, then a quick look along the covers angled to the light, and assign an approximate grade. I always like to have an idea of whether it's low, mid or high grade and that system works well. The higher the grade, spend a bit longer giving it the once over and job done. However, if you don't enjoy grading, then there's no need, only do it if it's fun. 

[MAR1979]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:06 AM, KCOComics said:

Now, the downside of CGC is even the non-key books get graded these days.  The value is placed largely on the covers and the stories between the covers get locked away. 

Its 2023, for the last 18-20 years there have been other ways to read Comic Book content than to hold ones book in hand and I'm not talking about re-colored trade volumes which of course is another easy cheaper way to read a comic. I've not read a physical comic, other than beater/reading copies book since 2007.  

Not directing this at you KCOComics;   The constant whine from some collectors about not being able to read a comic book once in a slab while technically true is rendered moot in this century.

Yes I "care about" and "love comics" have since I was a child, which is precisely why I do not subject them to the usually damaging utility for which they were created but have found better ways to read nearly every book I want to read.  BTW I do not sell comics so they are not a commodity to me.

Hey look below, I don't need to spend $200,000+USD to read a decent copy of AF15. Nor a cool million to read Action #1
Plus on my tablet or screen I can easily adjust the image size to deal with my ever changing eyesight 

 

and look-y here I don't need to crack out my Dell Giant 48 out of its slab to view Fred, Wilma, Betty, Barney, and Dino's 1st Comics app.

 

There may be many reasons to not want slabbed books but IMHO not being able to read them is the weakest reason of them all.

Edited April 30, 2023 by MAR1979

[shadroch]

Once upon a time, it was cheaper to slab a book and get a restoration check than my expert charged just for a restoration check. It's what attracted me to CGC in the first place.  I initially treated slabs as glorified fortresses.