The Day After. The Brutal Betrayal of the fast flip. 3 3

[Bronty]

Probably the best policy is to ask enough for your pieces where you don't give a flying eff what people do with them afterwards.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Bronty

[batman_fan]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:49 AM, Garf said:

*sigh* I might end up reaching out to someone for the same reason, but thankfully nowhere near the same league.

Personally I probably wouldn't even feel bad if I sold after a longer period of time, say 5 or 6 years later, tastes change, people have their price, and it took me a while to realise why I may never be truly finished with this hobby...  but then I also am not likely to have been pleading hard times or similar shenanigans. It probably doesn't need to be pointed out, but there is a distinction between being honest about offering what you can afford, when openly negotiating, and low balling.

Would there have been a period for you where enough time had passed to make this a non-issue or at least dull the impact?

 

The way I looked at the transaction was ultimately it was my fault.  I didn’t have to sell the piece to the person and I certainly didn’t have to give them a good deal.  Once I sell something it isn’t mine and the new owner can do whatever they want.  Now when contacted, I just say not for sale and typically pull the piece off CAF.  I tried the “the piece is not for sale but you are always free to make an offer” approach but that usually results in an offer that is less than I paid for a piece 20 years ago.  I no longer care what someone’s story is behind wanting a piece. 

[cstojano]

Anyone know the current count of fantasy art museums being planned/built in the near future?

[tth2]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:32 PM, batman_fan said:

 I no longer care what someone’s story is behind wanting a piece.

I've NEVER cared about someone's story behind wanting a piece. 

There are lots of things in life that I wanted but never got, so why should it be any different for them?

Edited May 18, 2023 by tth2

[Jordysnordy]

On 5/17/2023 at 1:32 PM, grapeape said:

You were hounded. "It's my grail," they assured you. You are on the fence, but finally relent. You never wished to sell it. They had to have it. You take pity and sell, and reasonably priced in light of the special circumstances. Shortly thereafter, you see the same prized possession listed for multiples of what you let it go for. Scream. Cry. Tell us. How does it feel to get stabbed in the back? Do: Let this be a catharsis rather than a place of revenge. How did it feel? You see it at auction or on a dealer's web page.

What's the "grail" you sold?

[Bronty]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:51 AM, cstojano said:

Anyone know the current count of fantasy art museums being planned/built in the near future?

The museum angle - man as soon as I hear that my ask goes up not down  for insulting my intelligence.

The museum is always someone's basement or the trunk of their car.    

[comix4fun]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:15 AM, Bronty said:

Probably the best policy is to ask enough for your pieces where you don't give a flying eff what people do with them afterwards.

Good advice to set a price you're comfortable with....

But I think the spirit behind the OP's post was the agreement to let it go at all, and at whatever price, was the result of being scammed, lied to, and preyed upon with false statements, promises, and emotional pleas. 

Even if you got every dollar you'd take today for something, I think his burning question is more about the lie behind the deal than the deal itself. 

Plenty of buys and sells are tainted in memory by the circumstances behind the transaction beyond the money. Dollars being only one measure of one's satisfaction.

[batman_fan]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:06 AM, Bronty said:

The museum angle - man as soon as I hear that my ask goes up not down  for insulting my intelligence.

The museum is always someone's basement or the trunk of their car.    

I have heard that one multiple times 

[buttock]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:57 AM, tth2 said:

I've NEVER cared about someone's story behind wanting a piece. 

There are lots of things in life that I wanted but never got, so why should it be any different for them?

Same.  If someone wants something and I want to sell, then I name a price I'm happy with and at that point if they take it then it's theirs to do with as they please.  If they don't want to pay my asking, then they can just move right on.  

[Bronty]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:32 AM, batman_fan said:

I have heard that one multiple times 

Its pretty bad!    Generally speaking, the minute someone drops that line, IMO, its time to run.

[Twanj]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:06 AM, Bronty said:

The museum angle - man as soon as I hear that my ask goes up not down  for insulting my intelligence.

The museum is always someone's basement or the trunk of their car.    

Who is this working on?

Why would someone ever sell for less to a museum?

[J.Sid]

I remember a friend of mine several years back had a great piece by _______ from a very specific issue of his groundbreaking run on ______. Anyways, a well-known collector/dealer/etc begged and pleaded with him for the piece. It was of course a grail. You know the drill.

Anyways a month later I find out that there is this whale of whales paying insane (multiples) money for pages from that very specific issue. I call my friend to tell him what I'd found out, and it turns out he was SITTING IN A CAR driving with the collector/dealer while I called him with the info. 

Always reminded me of that scene from Godfather II where Michael discovers Fredo's betrayed him. Fredo's still jovial and hamming it up at the club with everyone while Michael goes eerily silent as the information hits him.

[comix4fun]

On 5/18/2023 at 12:12 PM, J.Sid said:

I remember a friend of mine several years back had a great piece by _______ from a very specific issue of his groundbreaking run on ______. Anyways, a well-known collector/dealer/etc begged and pleaded with him for the piece. It was of course a grail. You know the drill.

Anyways a month later I find out that there is this whale of whales paying insane (multiples) money for pages from that very specific issue. I call my friend to tell him what I'd found out, and it turns out he was SITTING IN A CAR driving with the collector/dealer while I called him with the info. 

Always reminded me of that scene from Godfather II where Michael discovers Fredo's betrayed him. Fredo's still jovial and hamming it up at the club with everyone while Michael goes eerily silent as the information hits him.

[Sideshow Bob]

I'll provide the flip side of these stories.

I made offers of increasing amounts each year for several years on a splash page. Not for a museum or my kids' nursery, but at the time, I was virtually cornering the market on this one particular artist and this splash was a big get for me once the seller finally agreed to another jump in my offer. Two years later, after realizing I had amassed something like a hundred interior pages by the artist, I took stock of my collection and realized that my tastes had evolved and that "more" didn't necessarily mean "better". I trimmed that pile down dramatically to just a couple key pages and sequences, but in that selling process, the splash was sold at auction. I paid over FMV at the time that I bought it (a record for a splash...), and I never built in a sob story, but there is no denying that I extracted a key piece from a collection and within a matter of years it was placed in a public auction (where I took all the risk on it underperforming).

Should I feel like I did the seller a disservice? Objectively, there is a purchase and there is a sale, but its not a flip per se... Is it a better fact pattern that it went to auction and they had the right to buy it back at FMV (and possibly lower than what they sold it for)?

Bob

[pemart1966]

On 5/17/2023 at 9:56 PM, batman_fan said:

What they say "that is my one true grail, I doubt I can pay you FMV for it but if you could see any way to help me acquire it I would be forever in your debt."

What they really mean "I have a sucker lined up to buy it but I would like to make more off it."

 

Anyone that falls for this one deserves to see that piece up for sale later on.  

Edited May 18, 2023 by pemart1966

[pemart1966]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:06 AM, Bronty said:

The museum angle - man as soon as I hear that my ask goes up not down  for insulting my intelligence.

The museum is always someone's basement or the trunk of their car.    

...or a selling platform...

[Bronty]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:47 PM, Sideshow Bob said:

I'll provide the flip side of these stories.

I made offers of increasing amounts each year for several years on a splash page. Not for a museum or my kids' nursery, but at the time, I was virtually cornering the market on this one particular artist and this splash was a big get for me once the seller finally agreed to another jump in my offer. Two years later, after realizing I had amassed something like a hundred interior pages by the artist, I took stock of my collection and realized that my tastes had evolved and that "more" didn't necessarily mean "better". I trimmed that pile down dramatically to just a couple key pages and sequences, but in that selling process, the splash was sold at auction. I paid over FMV at the time that I bought it (a record for a splash...), and I never built in a sob story, but there is no denying that I extracted a key piece from a collection and within a matter of years it was placed in a public auction (where I took all the risk on it underperforming).

Should I feel like I did the seller a disservice? Objectively, there is a purchase and there is a sale, but its not a flip per se... Is it a better fact pattern that it went to auction and they had the right to buy it back at FMV (and possibly lower than what they sold it for)?

Bob

not at all.   perfectly reasonable on your part because you didn't misrepresent anything and you paid up to obtain your piece.   There was also significant passage of time (couple years).

[batman_fan]

On 5/18/2023 at 12:47 PM, Sideshow Bob said:

I'll provide the flip side of these stories.

I made offers of increasing amounts each year for several years on a splash page. Not for a museum or my kids' nursery, but at the time, I was virtually cornering the market on this one particular artist and this splash was a big get for me once the seller finally agreed to another jump in my offer. Two years later, after realizing I had amassed something like a hundred interior pages by the artist, I took stock of my collection and realized that my tastes had evolved and that "more" didn't necessarily mean "better". I trimmed that pile down dramatically to just a couple key pages and sequences, but in that selling process, the splash was sold at auction. I paid over FMV at the time that I bought it (a record for a splash...), and I never built in a sob story, but there is no denying that I extracted a key piece from a collection and within a matter of years it was placed in a public auction (where I took all the risk on it underperforming).

Should I feel like I did the seller a disservice? Objectively, there is a purchase and there is a sale, but its not a flip per se... Is it a better fact pattern that it went to auction and they had the right to buy it back at FMV (and possibly lower than what they sold it for)?

Bob

I share Bronty’s view.  Only one that should be upset about the transaction should be the seller and if they are upset it should be with themselves.

[grapeape]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:04 AM, Jordysnordy said:

What's the "grail" you sold?

Early 2000's I added my first John Byrne page to my collection. A year later, I started getting emails from a guy who pleaded with me to sell it to him. He said it was his favorite page, from his favorite story. I really didn't want to, but I finally did sell it. Now I didn't give it away, it was FMV I'd guess for that time. Anyways, I met the person in the city next to mine. They were eating at a restaraunt, I brought the page with me and exchanged it for cash. We chatted and I mentioned how hard it was to let it go.

Not long after, I saw the page pop up on a personal web page, not the same guy I sold it to. There was a place to leave comments, and my buyer, same guy who pleaded to get the grail from me, wrote, " I told you I would get this one for you." WTH ? A real head scratcher. So the whole time the guy didn't want it for himself, he wanted to get it on behalf of someone else? What could I do? Honestly, it was irritating more than devestating. I realzie I didn't have to sell the page to him, I made that choice. I guess it was just the way he pursued it. It was like he would die if he didn't get it. Then he gets it and it goes to someone else. Did he make more money off of it? I'm not sure. I would presume so. "I told you I would get this one for you." That's what always got me. Did I turn someone down, and this guy came up with the sob grail story to help his buddy? Who knows.

Again, I'm not about revenge just healing. That's all I hope for any of you who went through something like this.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by grapeape

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:56 AM, Twanj said:

Who is this working on?

Why would someone ever sell for less to a museum?

The only times I have actually witnessed this done, was due to a dedication plaque "Acquired from the Collection of John Doe" etc.

Some are willing to take less if they receive recognition for it. 

Please note this was not in a art or comic context, but could see this happening there as well. 

There was an avid collector of older planes that sold some of their pieces to an aviation museum. He sold some of them for less than he was offered by another buyer, but the museum has them on display that he can visit and has his name on them.