How do Sub-Grades on a card factor into the overall grade? 1 1

[Vagrantwade]

I got a card that graded at an 8. I don't really have an issue with it or the subgrades specifically. I'm just a bit confused as to how the sub grades led to the overall grade. These were the grades it got;

Centering: 9.5

Surface: 7.5

Corners: 10

Edges: 9

It averages out to a 36. I have cards with BGS that also have subgrades that average out to a 36 with the lowest also being a surface grade of 7.5. Those cards have a BGS 8.5 because it averages out to a 9, but they won't give more than a point higher than the lowest sub grade. Does CGC do something similar but only a half grade higher? This was my first ever submission to CGC so I'm just trying to figure out how it works with them. 

[KaileeS CS]

Hello @Vagrantwade, thank you for contacting us. CGC Trading Cards has developed a proprietary algorithm to determine a card’s final grade based on its sub-grades. While we can’t explain how we arrived at the grade and sub-grades for a specific card, we can share some guidelines. First, it is important to note that the final grade is not simply an average of the sub-grades. Rather, it is based on numerous rules built into CGC Trading Cards’ proprietary systems and grading process. For example, the final grade can be no more than .5 points higher than the lowest sub-grade, which I suspect may have been the case with your card. In addition, if the two lowest sub-grades are the same, then that is the final grade for the card.  For more info on the CGC Trading Cards grading scale, including detailed explanations for each grade and sub-grade, visit  https://www.cgccards.com/card-grading/grading-scale/ 

Please let us know if you have any additional questions. Thank you!

[HomeGrownPoke1]

On 5/30/2023 at 9:10 AM, KaileeS CS said:

Hello @Vagrantwade, thank you for contacting us. CGC Trading Cards has developed a proprietary algorithm to determine a card’s final grade based on its sub-grades. While we can’t explain how we arrived at the grade and sub-grades for a specific card, we can share some guidelines. First, it is important to note that the final grade is not simply an average of the sub-grades. Rather, it is based on numerous rules built into CGC Trading Cards’ proprietary systems and grading process. For example, the final grade can be no more than .5 points higher than the lowest sub-grade, which I suspect may have been the case with your card. In addition, if the two lowest sub-grades are the same, then that is the final grade for the card.  For more info on the CGC Trading Cards grading scale, including detailed explanations for each grade and sub-grade, visit  https://www.cgccards.com/card-grading/grading-scale/ 

Please let us know if you have any additional questions. Thank you!

You say the final grade can be no more than .5 points higher than the lowest sub-grade. But why are there cgc slabs on ebay with 1 whole point higher than the lowest sub-grade?

[RoLaren]

I had a card graded today that received an overall grade that is 1 point higher than the lowest sub grade.

Based on what I've seen, the OP's card should have graded an overall 8.5.

[cyclonus11]

It's not supposed to be the average of the two lowest scores, rounded down?

[RoLaren]

On 5/31/2023 at 1:07 PM, cyclonus11 said:

It's not supposed to be the average of the two lowest scores, rounded down?

That formula wouldn't work, given this:

 

[HomeGrownPoke1]

Why does it take forever to get any information around here? With stuff like this and the staff unclarity on how things operate makes me really question CGC and their grading standard.....

[HomeGrownPoke1]

On 6/1/2023 at 10:43 AM, HomeGrownPoke1 said:

Why does it take forever to get any information around here? With stuff like this and the staff unclarity on how things operate makes me really question CGC and their grading standard.....

My point exactly.......

[NickiO CS]

Hello @HomeGrownPoke1, 

I have reached out to our grading team for some insight. I will message you directly once I receive a reply from them. 

If you have any other questions in the meantime, please let us know. 

[HomeGrownPoke1]

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Edited June 5, 2023 by HomeGrownPoke1
...

[NickiO CS]

@HomeGrownPoke1,

Grading calculations are complex and are best reviewed on a per-card basis. Due to the proprietary nature of our processes, I cannot provide a breakdown of all rules that relate to how subgrades affect a card's final grade. The first thing to remember is that the final grade is not an average. A card's overall grade can be up to 1 point higher than the lowest subgrade. However, once you are above 8, in most cases, it will have an overall grade no higher than 0.5 point higher than the lowest subgrade. There are some exceptions based on which subgrade receives the lowest grade. 

If you have any other questions, please let us know. 

[RoLaren]

On 6/5/2023 at 10:58 AM, NickiO CS said:

@HomeGrownPoke1,

Grading calculations are complex and are best reviewed on a per-card basis. Due to the proprietary nature of our processes, I cannot provide a breakdown of all rules that relate to how subgrades affect a card's final grade. The first thing to remember is that the final grade is not an average. A card's overall grade can be up to 1 point higher than the lowest subgrade. However, once you are above 8, in most cases, it will have an overall grade no higher than 0.5 point higher than the lowest subgrade. There are some exceptions based on which subgrade receives the lowest grade. 

If you have any other questions, please let us know. 

Hello @NickiO CS,

Is there a reason it's so secretive? 

To my knowledge BGS is fully transparent about how their sub grades are used to calculate overall grades. It would benefit CGC to also be fully transparent so their customers understand why their cards are receiving the grades they do.

Are you at liberty to share the exceptions you mentioned above?

[NickiO CS]

Hello @RoLaren, 

I am happy to share your feedback with the management team. At this time, Certified Collectibles Group has made the business decision to maintain the details of the grading process as proprietary and not available to the public. While we are happy to address questions for individual submissions, I cannot provide a comprehensive list of sub-grade rules. 

If you have any other questions, please let us know. 

[Vagrantwade]

For the record, BGS works the same way. It's also a "proprietary algorithm." I have a bunch of cards from BGS that should be an average of a 9.5 but are a 9 specifically because Surface is the lowest score. 

The funny thing about this card is, is that it was actually a BGS 8.5 and it had the same subgrades lol. And since this post was made I had another card come back an 8 with 10/9.5/9.5/7.5 subgrades. The 7.5 was a terrible job at grading in general but paying and not having any actual clue why it scores the way it does has completely turned me off of CGC going forward.