Collector (or Speculator) Fatigue 2 2

[Bookery]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:14 PM, MAR1979 said:

its happened to stamps, it can happen to anything

The most alarming collapse of all has to be the rare/used book market.  There were collectors for rare and out-of-print books almost since the invention of the printing press.  It was a huge viable market for 500 years!  Then in a quick 20 year span it all collapsed.  Sure... as has been stated, there are plenty of nosebleed rarities purchased by elites... but many of these are just valuable for being valuable.  Nobody has been reading Fitzgerald or Hemingway or Steinbeck for a couple of generations, and the only reason some of those prices remain high is because they always have been.  More precipitous is simply the fall of the general used book.  You think $1 comic bins are a tumble from $5 retail price?  Try buying $25 hardbacks that are tough sell at $1 a year later.  There is some increasing interest in vintage paperbacks, as there has been with pulps... but that's more to do with cover art than the content within.  I love rare books and still carry some in my shop... but that's out of my own nostalgia rather than a sound business decision.  Rare books, stamps, coins... these were traditionally the gold standard of collectibles.  "Pop culture" collectibles have always been even more ephemeral... with most being popular for only a few years (Beanie Babies) to a few decades (Big Little Books, Hummels, Coca-Cola tie-ins, all-things western) before ultimately having no interest for a new generation.

[chrisco37]

Obadiah Oldbuck anyone?  

[october]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:59 AM, chrisco37 said:

Obadiah Oldbuck anyone?  

SHUSH!!!

Say it three times into a mirror and Bob Beerbohm appears to ask you for hip surgery money.

[october]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:52 AM, Bookery said:

The most alarming collapse of all has to be the rare/used book market.  There were collectors for rare and out-of-print books almost since the invention of the printing press.  It was a huge viable market for 500 years!  Then in a quick 20 year span it all collapsed.  

Would like to hear more about this. Are former $100-200 books now worth $10-20? What about $1000+ books? Why do you think this happened? General readership decline? eBay showing that former rarities aren't rare? Something else?

[buttock]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:38 AM, october said:

SHUSH!!!

Say it three times into a mirror and Bob Beerbohm appears to ask you for hip surgery money.

"Bone on bone!"

[Bookery]

On 6/21/2023 at 10:46 AM, october said:

Would like to hear more about this. Are former $100-200 books now worth $10-20? What about $1000+ books? Why do you think this happened? General readership decline? eBay showing that former rarities aren't rare? Something else?

You have a couple of generations now that really don't read (or at least, read digital only).  Books are costly and take up a lot of space.  It's almost impossible to buy quality bookshelves anymore without having them custom made, because it doesn't pay to manufacture them.  The concept of a library isn't even calculated into the construction of even expensive homes anymore.  Physical books are now considered archaic.  And... the current generation (teens and early twenties) don't really collect anything... all of their time is taken up texting and visiting YouTube and blogs.  And to be fair... whole swaths of authors just aren't relevant to current generations.  As i said, some of the really expensive books are still expensive for the time being just out of tradition.  But many others just don't have much of a market.  Markets are more art-driven now, and most hardback books don't have that much artistic design (with some exceptions like Burroughs).  So if you don't even know who the author is, and the jacket design is just routine... why would you be motivated to shell out money collecting them?

[october]

On 6/21/2023 at 11:33 AM, Bookery said:

And... the current generation (teens and early twenties) don't really collect anything

I hear this a lot, but my own experience (with admittedly younger kids) doesn't really bear this out. My son is 7, almost 8, and every one of his friends collects something....mostly Pokemon and sports cards. There is a serious, serious backlash amongst parents going on towards digital entertainment, social media, and screen time. If you don't have young kids, you might not see it, but it's there. Every parent I know is encouraging anything that doesn't include screens, and that most definitely involves collecting. Now, older kids? They are part of the unfortunate guinea pig generation that had this digital playground without any of the warnings, research, etc. You might be right about them. 

I hate to admit, as much as I love reading, collectible books just never grabbed me. I read every day, I was an English major, I collect tons of things, and if first editions don't appeal to me that's probably not a great sign.

 

[FlyingDonut]

 

On 6/21/2023 at 10:38 AM, october said:

SHUSH!!!

Say it three times into a mirror and Bob Beerbohm appears to ask you for hip surgery money.

You're terrible. I mean that's really funny but you're terrible.

[october]

On 6/21/2023 at 4:24 PM, FlyingDonut said:

 

You're terrible. I mean that's really funny but you're terrible.

100% going to hell for that one 

[FlyingDonut]

On 6/21/2023 at 12:33 PM, Bookery said:

You have a couple of generations now that really don't read (or at least, read digital only).  Books are costly and take up a lot of space.  It's almost impossible to buy quality bookshelves anymore without having them custom made, because it doesn't pay to manufacture them.  The concept of a library isn't even calculated into the construction of even expensive homes anymore.  Physical books are now considered archaic.  And... the current generation (teens and early twenties) don't really collect anything... all of their time is taken up texting and visiting YouTube and blogs.  And to be fair... whole swaths of authors just aren't relevant to current generations.  As i said, some of the really expensive books are still expensive for the time being just out of tradition.  But many others just don't have much of a market.  Markets are more art-driven now, and most hardback books don't have that much artistic design (with some exceptions like Burroughs).  So if you don't even know who the author is, and the jacket design is just routine... why would you be motivated to shell out money collecting them?

We had a full remodel of our house - down to the studs - we had to really stress with our builder that we wanted to have at least some book shelving. They were very surprised. We did get rid of about 1500 books that were just taking up space. Nothing collectible went but it was just piles and piles of books that we've read a few times each - if we want to read The Stand again (and really, who wouldn't) I can just go get one from 2nd and Charles or something.

The only "collectible" books I kept were things that I'm pretty sure have held up in value - the original Baseball Abstracts from 1977-1981, some real first print Stephen King things, the Bachman paperbacks, and a couple random art books that I just like.

[Robot Man]

On 6/21/2023 at 6:52 AM, Bookery said:

The most alarming collapse of all has to be the rare/used book market.  There were collectors for rare and out-of-print books almost since the invention of the printing press.  It was a huge viable market for 500 years!  Then in a quick 20 year span it all collapsed.  Sure... as has been stated, there are plenty of nosebleed rarities purchased by elites... but many of these are just valuable for being valuable.  Nobody has been reading Fitzgerald or Hemingway or Steinbeck for a couple of generations, and the only reason some of those prices remain high is because they always have been.  More precipitous is simply the fall of the general used book.  You think $1 comic bins are a tumble from $5 retail price?  Try buying $25 hardbacks that are tough sell at $1 a year later.  There is some increasing interest in vintage paperbacks, as there has been with pulps... but that's more to do with cover art than the content within.  I love rare books and still carry some in my shop... but that's out of my own nostalgia rather than a sound business decision.  Rare books, stamps, coins... these were traditionally the gold standard of collectibles.  "Pop culture" collectibles have always been even more ephemeral... with most being popular for only a few years (Beanie Babies) to a few decades (Big Little Books, Hummels, Coca-Cola tie-ins, all-things western) before ultimately having no interest for a new generation.

Hot Wheels are on fire. My daughter collects off the rack and if you aren’t first on a store restock, you miss out. There is always someone picking the racks in Target. You just can’t get them unless you drive from store to store or just get lucky. They all go to resellers. Funny thing is other than a few cars they are basically worthless. (3-10). Crazy!

[Black_Adam]

On 6/21/2023 at 6:52 AM, Bookery said:

The most alarming collapse of all has to be the rare/used book market.  There were collectors for rare and out-of-print books almost since the invention of the printing press.  It was a huge viable market for 500 years!  Then in a quick 20 year span it all collapsed.  Sure... as has been stated, there are plenty of nosebleed rarities purchased by elites... but many of these are just valuable for being valuable.  Nobody has been reading Fitzgerald or Hemingway or Steinbeck for a couple of generations, and the only reason some of those prices remain high is because they always have been.  More precipitous is simply the fall of the general used book.  You think $1 comic bins are a tumble from $5 retail price?  Try buying $25 hardbacks that are tough sell at $1 a year later.  There is some increasing interest in vintage paperbacks, as there has been with pulps... but that's more to do with cover art than the content within.  I love rare books and still carry some in my shop... but that's out of my own nostalgia rather than a sound business decision.  Rare books, stamps, coins... these were traditionally the gold standard of collectibles.  "Pop culture" collectibles have always been even more ephemeral... with most being popular for only a few years (Beanie Babies) to a few decades (Big Little Books, Hummels, Coca-Cola tie-ins, all-things western) before ultimately having no interest for a new generation.

What about newer books like 1st edition Harry Potter? There must be some demand for those?   

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:35 AM, Ken Aldred said:

The time of the Bad Girl Craze

I will take that over most moderns now. They were all wall books.  They are hot in different ways . In a few movies, they could be bigger than Antman and Shazam.

@Dr. Balls

 

ha ha

 

 

   

 

  

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by The humble Watcher lurking

[Ken Aldred]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:22 AM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

I will take that over most moderns now. They were all wall books.  They are hot in different ways . In a few movies, they could be bigger than Antman and Shazam.

@Dr. Balls

 

ha ha

 

 

   

 

  

 

 

Absolutely. Some of the best, most inventive, sophisticated stories and innovative, top-level artwork in the history of the medium.

After reading them I threw my ECs and Alan Moore comics in the trash, having witnessed quality being redefined.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Ken Aldred

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:22 AM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

I will take that over most moderns now. They were all wall books.  They are hot in different ways . In a few movies, they could be bigger than Antman and Shazam.

@Dr. Balls

 

ha ha

 

 

   

 

  

 

 

Bring on the 90’s Bad Girls movies…

[Number 6]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:16 PM, Black_Adam said:

What about newer books like 1st edition Harry Potter? There must be some demand for those?   

The true first editions of Harry Potter books, particularly the earlier books in the series, have demand are worth money. 
 

I don’t want to get into a debate, especially since this doesn’t really seam to be the subject of the thread, but suffice to say I personally haven’t found the book collecting hobby to be in quite the dire situation that it’s being portrayed here. 

[rumrunner71]

I'm a bit split on the comics market crashing completely. On the one hand, yeah, I don't want to lose a ton of money in what I already have. But on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the books I'd like to own become more affordable.

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:13 AM, rumrunner71 said:

I'm a bit split on the comics market crashing completely. On the one hand, yeah, I don't want to lose a ton of money in what I already have. But on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the books I'd like to own become more affordable.

Speaking purely from memory (and we're talking like 38 years ago) - at 12 years old when I was a comic 'reader' not yet a comic 'collector' - I collected baseball cards. I had amassed a lot of cards from 1982 all the way back to old 50's Bowmans. I ran into a old childhood friend at the mall - who offered to buy my whole collection (this was like $100-$200 back then) and I distinctly remember two things about baseball cards in 1983:

1. Ricky Henderson rookie cards exploded in value (they were $30-$40 each), making it difficult for a 12 year old who mowed lawns for $5-$10 to want to splurge on one card.

2. Baseball card shops were popping up all over the place, and driving the cost of individual cards up. I spent most of my allowance buying older packs (like old overstock 1980 Topps packs for $3 each, when 1984 packs were 30¢) to try and pull cards I needed, instead of paying higher prices for individual cards.

I sold my baseball cards to fund my new comic book collecting hobby. I came away with some seed money, which I promptly blew on Daredevil, Master of Kung Fu, GI Joe and The Nam. Baseball cards eventually took a tumble in value - those Ricky Henderson cards dropped like an anchor. It seems they have had an insane resurgence - but there was a time that the hobby was in real danger.

I feel that comics are getting near that again - but it will come back, it always does. There's so much to love about the medium - the art, the writing, the characters, the collectibilty - not to say it's too big to fail, but there's a lot of appeal in comic books that touches a lot of different personalities. I mean, there's years-long podcasts that talk about every issue of X-Men, Thor, Fantastic Four and more. It's ingrained into our society now, and while it may feel like it's getting hammered now - I feel that it's just coming back to reality after two years of widespread insanity.

[rumrunner71]

On 6/22/2023 at 11:59 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Speaking purely from memory (and we're talking like 38 years ago) - at 12 years old when I was a comic 'reader' not yet a comic 'collector' - I collected baseball cards. I had amassed a lot of cards from 1982 all the way back to old 50's Bowmans. I ran into a old childhood friend at the mall - who offered to buy my whole collection (this was like $100-$200 back then) and I distinctly remember two things about baseball cards in 1983:

1. Ricky Henderson rookie cards exploded in value (they were $30-$40 each), making it difficult for a 12 year old who mowed lawns for $5-$10 to want to splurge on one card.

2. Baseball card shops were popping up all over the place, and driving the cost of individual cards up. I spent most of my allowance buying older packs (like old overstock 1980 Topps packs for $3 each, when 1984 packs were 30¢) to try and pull cards I needed, instead of paying higher prices for individual cards.

I sold my baseball cards to fund my new comic book collecting hobby. I came away with some seed money, which I promptly blew on Daredevil, Master of Kung Fu, GI Joe and The Nam. Baseball cards eventually took a tumble in value - those Ricky Henderson cards dropped like an anchor. It seems they have had an insane resurgence - but there was a time that the hobby was in real danger.

I feel that comics are getting near that again - but it will come back, it always does. There's so much to love about the medium - the art, the writing, the characters, the collectibilty - not to say it's too big to fail, but there's a lot of appeal in comic books that touches a lot of different personalities. I mean, there's years-long podcasts that talk about every issue of X-Men, Thor, Fantastic Four and more. It's ingrained into our society now, and while it may feel like it's getting hammered now - I feel that it's just coming back to reality after two years of widespread insanity.

Totally get that, and couldn't agree more with your last statement about these last few years. I'm glad to have made a bit of cash with the boom in prices but some of those prices in the last two years....yeesh. Definitely coming back to reality

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:09 PM, rumrunner71 said:

Totally get that, and couldn't agree more with your last statement about these last few years. I'm glad to have made a bit of cash with the boom in prices but some of those prices in the last two years....yeesh. Definitely coming back to reality

I came back into comics at the downward slope of the run-up last year, so I'm stuck hanging on for 5-10 years, which is okay. Easy come, easy go. When I sold off my collection in 2014, the movie hype train was gaining speed and I profited mightily with that - my favorite era of collecting was Marvel Cosmic stuff, and in 2014 those books were hitting a fever pitch - and I had undercopies galore. I consider myself lucky to have been able to participate in at least one big bubble, I just have to wait this one out.