Jack Kirby's Son Comments On New Stan Lee Documentary 3 3

[Cat]

There's a new Stan Lee Documentary on Disney Plus apparently, and this is Neal Kirby, son on Jack's, reaction to it. 

[ExNihilo]

Remind me again why we call him Jack "The King" Kirby?  Not like that has anything to do with the recognition we, as fans, attribute to him for his hand in creating many of the characters we still enjoy today right?  I mean, surely couldn't be.

I'll say this.  At Disney's California Adventure, there's a plaque in Avengers Campus acknowledging Stan's contribution to Marvel.  I do wish they would add a Jack Kirby plaque alongside it.

In 2017, Stan Lee was inducted as a "Disney Legend", an award they give out to about 8 people for their contributions to the Walt Disney Company at every D23Expo (which is held every other year).  You know who else was inducted in 2017?  Jack Kirby.

[lordbyroncomics]

In 1957, Kirby does a Challengers story where one of them tests a rocket into space and gets flame and invisibility powers. 

Coincidence, of course. 

 

Neal's frustration is understandable. That entire documentary was to preserve the creator myth because Disney+, like all of Marvel's owners since Goodman initially sold it, needs to make sure that freelancers have had no claim on the intellectual property that they bought. It's as simple as that. They promised Stan a lifetime gig if he took the creator credit, with barely any of the creator money- and, as Stan was mainly interested in being notable he went for it. The truth is, the evidence shows that most of everything was generated by Kirby. I don't see how that takes away from Stan's talents. It takes away from false claims, which seems to greatly upset fanboys who desperately need nostalgia and the myths of their childhood preserved. Never got it. If someone is really great and someone trashes it, just shrug it off if they're great. If someone said Michael Jordan wasn't really good at basketball, you'll never see people taking the time and energy to argue that he was the way people feel the need to bury Kirby. 

The documentary was ridiculous; from the animated set ups of a full-head-of-hair Stan after opening it with bald Stan to the ongoing fable of beloved Joan Lee saying this "do it your way" blah blah blah (Stan's first recorded statements on that btw have Joan being exasperated and saying "When are you going to realize this is permanent!" before storming off) And I almost wonder if it was unconsciously planted when they played dialogue of Stan explaining that his wife had expensive tastes so he'd say, buy whatever and I'll just write so many stories to justify it this week- Stan was getting paid for the writer's plot to add to his income which was the main source of Kirby, Wood, Ayer's etc. frustrations- the Marvel Method was a kickback scheme. This helped substantiate that even more.

 

[Jaylam]

Add to that the name of the Challegers character that got the flame and invisibility powers was "Rocky". He was almost the Superskrull!

[Mr bla bla]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:12 PM, Jaylam said:

Add to that the name of the Challegers character that got the flame and invisibility powers was "Rocky". He was almost the Superskrull!

Everybody in the know (from Alan Moore to Grant Morrison) is aware of the scam being pulled off here.

Long live the King.

Long live Kirby.

[StillOnly25Cents]

On 6/18/2023 at 12:39 PM, Mr bla bla said:

from Alan Moore to Grant Morrison

that isn't a lot of people 

[Lazyboy]

On 6/18/2023 at 2:05 PM, StillOnly25Cents said:

that isn't a lot of people 

If Moore had his way, there would be a lot of room between them.

[Lazyboy]

On 6/18/2023 at 12:39 PM, Mr bla bla said:

Everybody in the know (from Alan Moore to Grant Morrison) is aware of the scam being pulled off here.

Long live the King.

Long live Kirby.

Alan Moore's tribute to Jack Kirby:

Alan Moore's tribute to Stan Lee:

 

 

 

 

[jcjames]

Kirby could tell the great stories, but couldn't sell the great stories. Kirby had the imagination and talent, Stan had the salesmanship and charisma. I greatly appreciate both. 

[SpineTic]

On 6/18/2023 at 3:19 PM, Lazyboy said:

Alan Moore's tribute to Jack Kirby:

Alan Moore's tribute to Stan Lee:

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by ak47po

[lordbyroncomics]

On 6/18/2023 at 6:27 PM, jcjames said:

Kirby could tell the great stories, but couldn't sell the great stories. Kirby had the imagination and talent, Stan had the salesmanship and charisma. I greatly appreciate both. 

No one is saying you shouldn't or there isn't truth to that (though we won't talk about Kirby's sales in the Golden Age or the Romance genre as it would disrupt that narrative), and it's too often that someone chimes in with a variant of that. No one is saying this. Stan Lee did was a great Editor, Dialogue Writer, Spokesman, etc.- the issue is that he took credit for things he didn't do, not what he did do.

[comicwiz]

Lee's ego and megalomaniac need to assert his place in Marvel history has always seemed like that of a hanger-on in a succession tale where he ends up as royal consort. With the upside that the torch has been passed to a media conglomerate that’s invested in pushing the same narrative and message.

Edited June 20, 2023 by comicwiz

[Zonker]

On 6/18/2023 at 10:04 PM, comicwiz said:

 the torch has been passed to a media conglomerate that’s invested in pushing the same narrative and message.

One would hope that after Disney settled out-of-court with the Kirby estate-- and now Larry Lieber, the estates of Don Heck, Gene Colan, etc.-- they would be more open to sharing the credit more widely for the sake of posterity.  But I guess that's not to be-- their IP lawyers still feel like they have to defend against the Ditko estate and who knows how many others out there not yet settled.  And of course the single creator myth is built into the corporate psyche, all the way back to Uncle Walt himself.  

[comicwiz]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:57 AM, Zonker said:

now Larry Lieber, the estates of Don Heck, Gene Colan

With the recent Marvel settlement, the Leiber name is forever etched as the quintessential nepotists.

[ThothAmon]

On 6/18/2023 at 4:14 AM, ExNihilo said:

Remind me again why we call him Jack "The King" Kirby?

May not fit the thread’s narrative but Stan Lee gave him that nickname.  

[jsilverjanet]

@Prince Namor

[mrc]

On 6/20/2023 at 11:55 AM, jsilverjanet said:

@Prince Namor

..........

[bronze johnny]

Jack Kirby is the Antonio Meucci to Stan Lee’s Alexander Bell…

[jsilverjanet]

On 6/20/2023 at 7:27 AM, mrc said:

..........

I don't understand your reaction

[MattTheDuck]

On 6/20/2023 at 8:48 AM, jsilverjanet said:

I don't understand your reaction

He already has entire threads about this subject - anyone who wants to know his "take" on this subject already knows it.