QES or CVA certs (stickers) on GA Books? 2 2

[956Ref]

Howdy,

I have been tossing around the idea on sending in some GA books for CVA or QES service. What are yall's thoughts? Anyone have any experience sending in books and would like to share their experience? Is this service less or more helpful since there are less copies of GA books vs SA books? Is one better/more revered/respected than the other? Thank! 

I look forward to hearing what some of the thoughts and shares are!

[bronze johnny]

Do you need a third party to tell you whether a book presents well or not? 

[badback83]

Waste of money IMO.

[Dark Knight]

Might be beneficial if you're selling. If keeping in your collection, then it's not needed.

[Cat-Man_America]

On 7/29/2023 at 10:46 AM, bronze johnny said:

Do you need a third party to tell you whether a book presents well or not? 

How does anyone "know" that a book in the same grade presents better than the majority of other copies in the same grade? ...Ouija board? ...Turbaned Swami? ...Drug sniffin' canine unit? 

On 7/29/2023 at 1:01 PM, Dark Knight said:

Might be beneficial if you're selling. If keeping in your collection, then it's not needed.

Ah, that presumes it's just a sellers advertising gimmick, using the power of suggestion to persuade potential buyers without verifiable evidence to bolster the assertion.  

In fact, using reverse psychology it might be just as reasonable to assume the best books in grade don't have stickers. 

[bronze johnny]

On 7/29/2023 at 2:17 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

How does anyone "know" that a book in the same grade presents better than the majority of other copies in the same grade? ...Ouija board? ...Turbaned Swami? ...Drug sniffin' canine unit? 

Ah, that presumes it's just a sellers advertising gimmick, using the power of suggestion to persuade potential buyers without verifiable evidence to bolster the assertion.  

In fact, using reverse psychology it might be just as reasonable to assume the best books in grade don't have stickers. 

How many available  copies are in the grades for some of the books you have to choose from? Do you need a sticker for the Mile High Copy? The Twilight? Should I wait around for another Gerber 8 copy of one of my Feature Comic books because the one in my collection that I really like doesn’t have a sticker on it? 

In relative terms, you can know if your copy is nicer than the others in the same grade where there are multiple copies in existence unless you spend a lot of time analyzing Heritage and other websites that keep scans in their history of sales. Still, there are those who believe a date stamp adds to the attraction of a cover while others dislike them. When buying a book, the old adage “buy the book, not the grade” applies in many cases.

Then there’s looking at a book’s presentation in absolute terms and that’s a “know it when you see it.” There are collectors who aren’t concerned about getting the perfectly centered copy. Others who dislike signatures on the covers. I’ve seen books with stickers on them and smiled because of the sad attempt to quantify what cannot be quantified. Pedigree copies in general (Mohawks in many cases are an exception) and those good old books from noted collections (Edenwald and Sid’s Luncheonette) will generally have nice presenting copies so they stand on their own in terms of presentation. 

I think it’s time we start grading the slabs themselves, especially in terms of how many Newton Rings appear. Let’s put a sticker on slabs with less than 10 rings and call it the “Newton 🍎” standard…

Edited July 29, 2023 by bronze johnny

[Dark Knight]

On 7/29/2023 at 11:17 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

How does anyone "know" that a book in the same grade presents better than the majority of other copies in the same grade? ...Ouija board? ...Turbaned Swami? ...Drug sniffin' canine unit? 

Ah, that presumes it's just a sellers advertising gimmick, using the power of suggestion to persuade potential buyers without verifiable evidence to bolster the assertion.  

In fact, using reverse psychology it might be just as reasonable to assume the best books in grade don't have stickers. 

There are multiple examples of books sold where the CVA sticker or QES sticker sold for more than a book without the sticker.  I have experienced this first hand as well when I auctioned off a major lower graded book but with high eye appeal. Of course you have to take into account the 1% fee to have the sticker on the book and see if it is worth it.  

[Professor K]

I'm assuming when they assess a book for these stickers they do not remove the book from the holder. If they do need to crack the case then definitely don't do it.

Personally I wouldn't bother. Nice looking books don't need a shiny sticker to sell for their maximum amount. But if you think a book is undergraded then resubmitting it is an option with or without a CCS press. One grade bump up will increase sale value more than a sticker in my opinion.

I have this QES book. I do think its undergraded and I'm considering sending it for a press and regrade.

[badback83]

On 7/29/2023 at 4:07 PM, Professor K said:

I'm assuming when they assess a book for these stickers they do not remove the book from the holder. If they do need to crack the case then definitely don't do it.

Personally I wouldn't bother. Nice looking books don't need a shiny sticker to sell for their maximum amount. But if you think a book is undergraded then resubmitting it is an option with or without a CCS press. One grade bump up will increase sale value more than a sticker in my opinion.

I have this QES book. I do think its undergraded and I'm considering sending it for a press and regrade.

That is, indeed, a lovely copy. 

[D84]

I think buying a role of these off Amazon and putting them on your slabs will definitely raise the value.

[Dr. Balls]

The don't assess the book on the inside, which one of the reasons why it's been the butt of jokes for countless years. I have one GA book that has a QES sticker, and whether it had it or not, I still would have bought it. I also have no problem paying a premium for a "nice presenting" book in-grade. That's the benefit of having a "nice presenter" - it can either make you a couple of bucks, or make it easier to sell. I don't believe you need to pay a company to tell that to you.

But, companies have managed to convince people to pay $2 for water in a plastic bottle and $5 for a cup of coffee, when it was a laughable idea 30 years ago. These places are still around despite me making fun of them for many years - so what do I know?

[956Ref]

I mean isn’t this the same argument as grading a 1/1 sports card? There is no point in grading it as it is already the highest graded. The ability to place a rating on the presentation of a collectable seems like it could add to its desirability. I’m not saying that people SHOULD or NEED to rely on the CVA or QES sticker, but maybe it gives that piece of mind that it is indeed a wonderful copy.

 

I think every collector has bought a book or two that they have wanted and probably with rose colored glasses. This can help discern if they were desperate or jumped the gun..etc Not saying collectors should be disciplined or whatever I’ll be accused of. Just a thought.

[956Ref]

On 7/29/2023 at 3:07 PM, Professor K said:

I'm assuming when they assess a book for these stickers they do not remove the book from the holder. If they do need to crack the case then definitely don't do it.

Personally I wouldn't bother. Nice looking books don't need a shiny sticker to sell for their maximum amount. But if you think a book is undergraded then resubmitting it is an option with or without a CCS press. One grade bump up will increase sale value more than a sticker in my opinion.

I have this QES book. I do think its undergraded and I'm considering sending it for a press and regrade.

This book looks awesome, I’m sure without the sticker you would still be debating whether to CPR it or not, but I’m sure the QES puts you at 60/40 instead of a 50/50. I don’t think thats a bad thing either.

[lou_fine]

On 7/29/2023 at 8:46 AM, bronze johnny said:

Do you need a third party to tell you whether a book presents well or not? 

 

On 7/29/2023 at 8:52 AM, DocHoppus182 said:

Waste of money IMO.

Well, if you really really want to be cynical about the whole thing, do you really need a third party to tell you what the condition grade of a book is?  

Seriously though, it doesn't hurt if you are into the CPR game and either too lazy or don't have the technical smarts to figure out what is potentially upgradeable or not.  I remember taking a look at about a dozen or so of Doug's GA Dell File copies from the late 30's/early 40's that had either the QES or CVA sticker on them when he had originally picked them up, and if I remembered correctly, it was a perect batting average when it came to him reselling them on Heritage, all encased in higher graded slabs. 

The ironic and rather funny thing about it though was that Dougie still ended up losing money on the ones that originally had the QES stickers on them as some of them sold for even slightly lower dollars at HA even though they had the bigger number in the top left hand corner, but no longer any sticker on them.   

He more than made it up though with the one that originally had the CVA sticker on it, probably because not as many GA collectors frequent the CL auctions as compared to the CC auctions.  

 

[badback83]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:50 PM, lou_fine said:

 

Well, if you really really want to be cynical about the whole thing, do you really need a third party to tell you what the condition grade of a book is?  

Seriously though, it doesn't hurt if you are into the CPR game and either too lazy or don't have the technical smarts to figure out what is potentially upgradeable or not.  I remember taking a look at about a dozen or so of Doug's GA Dell File copies from the late 30's/early 40's that had either the QES or CVA sticker on them when he had originally picked them up, and if I remembered correctly, it was a perect batting average when it came to him reselling them on Heritage, all encased in higher graded slabs. 

The ironic and rather funny thing about it though was that Dougie still ended up losing money on the ones that originally had the QES stickers on them as some of them sold for even slightly lower dollars at HA even though they had the bigger number in the top left hand corner, but no longer any sticker on them.   

He more than made it up though with the one that originally had the CVA sticker on it, probably because not as many GA collectors frequent the CL auctions as compared to the CC auctions.  

 

Touché 

[bronze johnny]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:50 PM, lou_fine said:

 

Well, if you really really want to be cynical about the whole thing, do you really need a third party to tell you what the condition grade of a book is?  

Seriously though, it doesn't hurt if you are into the CPR game and either too lazy or don't have the technical smarts to figure out what is potentially upgradeable or not.  I remember taking a look at about a dozen or so of Doug's GA Dell File copies from the late 30's/early 40's that had either the QES or CVA sticker on them when he had originally picked them up, and if I remembered correctly, it was a perect batting average when it came to him reselling them on Heritage, all encased in higher graded slabs. 

The ironic and rather funny thing about it though was that Dougie still ended up losing money on the ones that originally had the QES stickers on them as some of them sold for even slightly lower dollars at HA even though they had the bigger number in the top left hand corner, but no longer any sticker on them.   

He more than made it up though with the one that originally had the CVA sticker on it, probably because not as many GA collectors frequent the CL auctions as compared to the CC auctions.  

 

Big difference between grading comic books and deciding whether a copy presents well. You can quantify the number of defects a comic book has and even determine whether a defect in question has a greater impact on the technical grade of a comic where a scale is used to measure and allow the grader(s) to arrive at a numerical number for the grade. You can’t quantify whether a book presents well or not. There are copies of Avengers1 that present better in 6.0 than 7.0. There are copies of books that have 6.0 grades due to defects on the back cover reducing their technical grades. You don’t need a third party to tell you what you can decide for yourself.  This isn’t about being cynical. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 7/29/2023 at 2:56 PM, bronze johnny said:

How many available  copies are in the grades for some of the books you have to choose from? Do you need a sticker for the Mile High Copy? The Twilight? Should I wait around for another Gerber 8 copy of one of my Feature Comic books because the one in my collection that I really like doesn’t have a sticker on it? 

In relative terms, you can know if your copy is nicer than the others in the same grade where there are multiple copies in existence unless you spend a lot of time analyzing Heritage and other websites that keep scans in their history of sales. Still, there are those who believe a date stamp adds to the attraction of a cover while others dislike them. When buying a book, the old adage “buy the book, not the grade” applies in many cases.

Then there’s looking at a book’s presentation in absolute terms and that’s a “know it when you see it.” There are collectors who aren’t concerned about getting the perfectly centered copy. Others who dislike signatures on the covers. I’ve seen books with stickers on them and smiled because of the sad attempt to quantify what cannot be quantified. Pedigree copies in general (Mohawks in many cases are an exception) and those good old books from noted collections (Edenwald and Sid’s Luncheonette) will generally have nice presenting copies so they stand on their own in terms of presentation. 

I think it’s time we start grading the slabs themselves, especially in terms of how many Newton Rings appear. Let’s put a sticker on slabs with less than 10 rings and call it the “Newton 🍎” standard…

I have 3 books with CVA stickers, and in no case did the sticker make any difference to me. The books have nice eye appeal, but I didn't need a sticker to tell me that. Do you have any idea how many defects can't be seen when a book is in a slab? The stickers are meaningless. (I didn't even notice the sticker on the Mystic until after I bought it; I had asked CLink for large scans, and the sticker wasn't on there yet in those pictures).

On 7/29/2023 at 6:12 PM, Dr. Balls said:

The don't assess the book on the inside, which one of the reasons why it's been the butt of jokes for countless years. I have one GA book that has a QES sticker, and whether it had it or not, I still would have bought it. I also have no problem paying a premium for a "nice presenting" book in-grade. That's the benefit of having a "nice presenter" - it can either make you a couple of bucks, or make it easier to sell. I don't believe you need to pay a company to tell that to you.

But, companies have managed to convince people to pay $2 for water in a plastic bottle and $5 for a cup of coffee, when it was a laughable idea 30 years ago. These places are still around despite me making fun of them for many years - so what do I know?

I still drink water from the tap a brew my coffee at home (in a pan on the stove because my coffee maker broke during the pandemic and I haven't gotten around to replacing it).

Edited July 30, 2023 by jimbo_7071

[BlowUpTheMoon]

  

On 7/29/2023 at 10:37 AM, 956Ref said:

Anyone have any experience sending in books and would like to share their experience?

Last I heard you can send in high rez scans of the book and they'll send the sticker if the book makes the cut. 

[tth2]

On 7/30/2023 at 7:50 AM, lou_fine said:

Well, if you really really want to be cynical about the whole thing, do you really need a third party to tell you what the condition grade of a book is?  

Well, yes, because I can't grade a book accurately from a scan, and neither can anyone else despite many people apparently having illusions otherwise.  

On the other hand, I can look at a scan (assuming it's not distorted or manipulated) and judge for myself if the book is properly centered and aligned and if there are any visible QP defects.

[tth2]

How can a book get a sticker for having an exceptional appearance when it has this kind of miswrap?