The Comics Lore Unpopular Opinion Thread 2 2

[KCOComics]

On 9/10/2023 at 6:02 PM, Larryw7 said:

I think Avengers 1 is one of the worst comics I've ever read. I recently picked up a facsimile copy because I haven't read it in a long time. I can't believe how terrible the writing and dialogue were. The poor Hulk in clown makeup? The poor character motivations, Stan's less than snappy dialogue. Kirby's art is fine, typical early Marvel. But the story was so bad that I no longer care whether I get an original copy of 1 anymore. 

Some of those early Marvel's were very campy.  Fantastic Four 5 was a story about Doctor Doom trying to build a time machine to steal Black Beard's gold. 

By the mid 60s FF and Avengers hit their stride. Spidey had iconic stories in the early years, but I feel like he hit his stride in the mid 60s with Romita as well.   

The one thing I'll say for Avengers 1 is, I've always loved the cover. 

[jcjames]

I think Kirby is over-rated when it comes to drawing the human figure. 

He's got incredible imagination and creativity - clearly a towering figure in comic storydom and imagination. But his human figures are plain blocky and when in motion are almost always portrayed in the same bizarre "squat" even when running. 

And his faces - almost always the same face for almost every character: Cap, Thor, Kamandi, you name it - it's almost always the same face and mouth (his own mouth btw). And his ability to draw female faces, ugh, same as Cap or Thor, but with boofy hair. 

 

There. 

[Happy Noodle Boy]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:15 PM, KCOComics said:

Some of those early Marvel's were very campy.  Fantastic Four 5 was a story about Doctor Doom trying to build a time machine to steal Black Beard's gold. 

Technically, to steal Blackbeard's treasure chest--this is the key point that allowed Reed to outwit him! (I have a lot of nostalgia for that issue, I read it in a Pocket Books paperback reprint about 45 years ago.)

[Ken Aldred]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:01 PM, Cat said:

For the record I love chromium covers, they keep the pages inside in such beautiful condition. I would legit pay for every book to have a chromium cover. I've said that for decades now. Just protects the book so much better, and keeps it minty fresh,a pleasure to reread. 

They are nice. Far superior to card-embossed or lenticular covers.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:44 PM, Ken Aldred said:

On 9/12/2023 at 4:01 PM, Cat said:

For the record I love chromium covers, they keep the pages inside in such beautiful condition. I would legit pay for every book to have a chromium cover. I've said that for decades now. Just protects the book so much better, and keeps it minty fresh,a pleasure to reread. 

Expand  

They are nice. Far superior to card-embossed or lenticular covers.

I could only imagine if such pristineness became universal from here on out, it would be 9.9 or bust. I imagine the current ripple paper quality that some books have is due to production and new mechanics going another way.

Whatever it takes to keep the "reader mentality" I'd be up for it though. Many weekends at the coffee shop with dad as a kid, starting with funny pages in newspapers, turned to me forty years later getting him a Shazam comic to read as that was his favorite as a kid. 

To the point though, there are manufactured collectables and there are those bought for the same purposes, although not manufactured specifically as a collectable. That distinction varies in everyone, and I wonder how much the medium holds up in the long run? 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[Happy Noodle Boy]

I always assume the modern variant cover collectors will eventually realize how they're throwing their money away when they have to buy a dozen or more different copies of a single issue just to keep up with trends, but I've been wrong before. I'm hoping, a decade from now, to see all that stuff filling up dollar-boxes in every comic shop across America.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Mark Warren

[B2D327]

On 9/12/2023 at 11:06 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 turned to me forty years later getting him a Shazam comic to read as that was his favorite 

 

You were raised right 

[Artboy99]

On 9/10/2023 at 2:15 PM, Ken Aldred said:

Thought it was a masterpiece back in the 80s, but I’m in a fairly sizeable group that by now has come to dislike the space squid ending.

I greatly prefer the ending in the film.

[valiantman]

I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or just one that most people have never thought about...

The average grade for surviving raw (and graded) comic books from 1933 to 1999 is nearly always the year divided by 10 (or lower).

Surviving comics from 1938 always average 3.8 or lower. Surviving comics from 1965 always average 6.5 or lower.  Surviving comics from 1979 are always 7.9 or lower. Surviving comics from 1992 always average 9.2 or lower.

It doesn't seem like that would be true because calculated CGC averages are often higher, but CGC grading is only done with copies "worth sending to CGC"... not every surviving copy.

Generally speaking, if you want an above average book in your collection, just get one that's higher grade than the year.  (Higher than 3.8 for 1938, higher than 6.5 for 1965, higher than 9.2 for 1992, etc.)

Edited September 13, 2023 by valiantman

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:23 PM, Mark Warren said:

I'm hoping, a decade from now, to see all that stuff filling up dollar-boxes in every comic shop across America.

I'm pretty sure this was said in 1996, 2006 and 2016.

[mysterymachine]

I'm going to bring up Star Wars. I know many are saying "Hey that's a movie! We're talking about comics!" Well, just mark that as another unpopular opinion of mine, because Star Wars holds an impressive share of the comic market today.

I was 16 when the movie came out. I lived through the long theater lines and hype on the Six-o clock News. My friends and I waited two weeks before going to avoid the crowds. Was the wait worth it? Yeah. Was it the best Sci-Fi movie to ever hit the theaters? What?? No way guys.

Sorry, but the movie was not worth the hype. Now I don't hate the movie, it was good. It had groundbreaking effects (for six months anyway) and a fantastic soundtrack from John Williams. That victory march at the end, when they all receive their medals is such an iconic ending. Even though it didn't really end there.  I just never to this day understood the hype. Darth Vader was just Doctor Doom in space. The Storm Troopers were a gang of  that never spent a day at target practice. The Term "May the Force be with you" is just silly!! The Wookie looked like a character from Sesame Street. (Look up an old short film called "Hardware Wars". You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll kiss three buck's goodbye)

Close Encounter of the Third Kind came out only six months later, and the special effects in that movie surpassed the effects in Star Wars by leaps and bounds.

Ok I'm carrying on too long about the movie. But that movie spawned what we have today. TV Shows, Cartoons, Toys and Comics. Yes, Comics, Comics, and more Comics! Spec, Spec, and more spec! Is all this Star Wars hype still confusing to me? Yes, yes and yes!! 

Edited September 13, 2023 by mysterymachine

[The Commissioner]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:33 PM, jcjames said:

And his faces - almost always the same face for almost every character: Cap, Thor, Kamandi, you name it - it's almost always the same face and mouth (his own mouth btw). And his ability to draw female faces, ugh, same as Cap or Thor, but with boofy hair.

What are you talking about?

[BA773]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:19 PM, valiantman said:

I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or just one that most people have never thought about...

The average grade for surviving raw (and graded) comic books from 1933 to 1999 is nearly always the year divided by 10 (or lower).

Surviving comics from 1938 always average 3.8 or lower. Surviving comics from 1965 always average 6.5 or lower.  Surviving comics from 1979 are always 7.9 or lower. Surviving comics from 1992 always average 9.2 or lower.

It doesn't seem like that would be true because calculated CGC averages are often higher, but CGC grading is only done with copies "worth sending to CGC"... not every surviving copy.

Generally speaking, if you want an above average book in your collection, just get one that's higher grade than the year.  (Higher than 3.8 for 1938, higher than 6.5 for 1965, higher than 9.2 for 1992, etc.)

OMG that's just seem crazy but making sense

[Krydel4]

On 9/12/2023 at 7:33 PM, jcjames said:

I think Kirby is over-rated when it comes to drawing the human figure. 

He's got incredible imagination and creativity - clearly a towering figure in comic storydom and imagination. But his human figures are plain blocky and when in motion are almost always portrayed in the same bizarre "squat" even when running. 

And his faces - almost always the same face for almost every character: Cap, Thor, Kamandi, you name it - it's almost always the same face and mouth (his own mouth btw). And his ability to draw female faces, ugh, same as Cap or Thor, but with boofy hair. 

 

There. 

I put this more down to his inking by Colletta. There are plenty of examples of Kirby with expressive faces in his pencils, only to be dumbed down and the detail taken out by Collettas inking.

[jcjames]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:09 AM, The Commissioner said:

What are you talking about?

 

[Ken Aldred]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:51 PM, jcjames said:

 

Rob Liefeld can only dream about that kind of expressive range. Don't knock it.

[jcjames]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:54 PM, Ken Aldred said:

Rob Liefeld can only dream about that kind of expressive range. Don't knock it.

That is true. 

But knocking Liefeld would not be an "unpopular" comic opinion. 

[AJD]

Golden Age artist Fletcher Hanks was ahead of Kirby in the mono-expression stakes

[Nick Furious]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:02 PM, Dr. Balls said:

There's a special place in Hell reserved for Joe Quesada and his not-fit-for-toilet-paper Origin mini-series

When I finally read it my first thought was "How did this possibly get approved?"

[Nick Furious]

Len Wein was a nice guy to meet in person, but his writing was about as good as first-generation AI.  Jack Kirby's writing didn't even meet that low bar.