A Softening Art Market Has Hit Last Years Auction Stars 1 1

[buttock]

On 9/22/2023 at 7:47 AM, Bronty said:

In fairness, there's hardly any point.     A collectible ROI calculation is mental masturbation.    Collectibles don't appreciate in a straight line, don't give predictable returns, and every collectible appreciates - or depreciates - differently.    Any calc would be so laden with assumptions as to be essentially worthless.

And collectibles don't have an assigned value until they sell.  

[delekkerste]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:00 AM, tth2 said:

"the rookie card for Bob Ross" 

If you weren't aware, the latest collectible to get the backward-baseball cap wearing speculator pump is graded record albums. 

The pumpers are actually referring to debut albums as things like "the Black Sabbath rookie".  

I wish I was joking. 

[KirbyCollector]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:04 PM, buttock said:

And collectibles don't have an assigned value until they sell.  

The value comes from being able to enjoy them regardless of their monetary worth. No 5% yield on a CD is going to make you remember that hot day in July 1980, when you sat on the curb in front of the 7-11 working on a large cherry Slurpee while reading the latest Byrne X-Men you just bought from a spinner rack inside and wondering if you'd ever meet a girl as pretty as Jean Grey. THAT is the true worth of collectibles.

[Bronty]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:56 PM, KirbyCollector said:

The value comes from being able to enjoy them regardless of their monetary worth. No 5% yield on a CD is going to make you remember that hot day in July 1980, when you sat on the curb in front of the 7-11 working on a large cherry Slurpee while reading the latest Byrne X-Men you just bought from a spinner rack inside and wondering if you'd ever meet a girl as pretty as Jean Grey. THAT is the true worth of collectibles.

I suspect we all agree with you there, but that's the point.   Trying to turn it into math is a flawed prospect.

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:11 PM, delekkerste said:

If you weren't aware, the latest collectible to get the backward-baseball cap wearing speculator pump is graded record albums. 

The pumpers are actually referring to debut albums as things like "the Black Sabbath rookie".  

I wish I was joking. 

Holy cow - they are grading records now!?! I dumped all my first pressings (including Sabbath) early last year because I thought grading was impossible.

Grading vinyl without playing it? Worthless.

Grading sound quality? What equipment are you grading on?

Grading records under a 10,000 watt light bulb? If not, the audiophiles will have your hide.

Grading the sleeve and inner is the only thing possible to grade with any standards of consistency.

The die-hard Record collectors are picking pepper out of gnat shatt - I would not want to be a company grading records. 

 

[delekkerste]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:34 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Holy cow - they are grading records now!?! I dumped all my first pressings (including Sabbath) early last year because I thought grading was impossible.

Grading vinyl without playing it? Worthless.

Grading sound quality? What equipment are you grading on?

Grading records under a 10,000 watt light bulb? If not, the audiophiles will have your hide.

Grading the sleeve and inner is the only thing possible to grade with any standards of consistency.

The die-hard Record collectors are picking pepper out of gnat shatt - I would not want to be a company grading records. 

 

A bunch of third-party grading companies for records popped up almost overnight over the past year or so. DJ Steve Aoki is backing one of them although Heritage seems to have struck up some kind of partnership with a fellow Texas-based grading company. Here's a slabbed, sealed record up for auction at Heritage this week. 

For sealed records, they grade the cover and the shrink wrap to come up with the overall grade.

For opened records, they grade the record, cover, inner sleeve and labels to come up with the overall grade. 

I have actually been collecting mostly sealed records for the past 2-3 years. For me, it's primarily a nostalgia thing, though, after the videogame pump and then the VHS market pump, I became metaphysically certain that it was only a matter of time before they got to records, cassettes and CDs and I was proven correct. 

I'm actually sending in my first batch of records to be graded this weekend! I have audiophile friends who are snobby about not being able to play sealed and/or graded records, but, you could make the same argument for slabbed comics, toys, videogames, VHS, etc. where the original product can no longer be used as intended; it's really only trading cards where there is no meaningful loss of functionality after slabbing.  

Edited September 22, 2023 by delekkerste

[KirbyCollector]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:52 PM, delekkerste said:

slabbed comics, toys, videogames, VHS, etc. where the original product can no longer be used as intended

Aka "glorified dust collectors"

[JC25427N]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:52 PM, delekkerste said:

it's really only trading cards where there is no meaningful loss of functionality after slabbing.  

I think you lose the ability to use that card in official play

[vodou]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:52 PM, delekkerste said:

it's really only trading cards where there is no meaningful loss of functionality after slabbing.  

…and coins, where all this graded and slabbed foolishness first started.

[delekkerste]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:20 PM, JC25427N said:

I think you lose the ability to use that card in official play

 

 

[Bronty]

Yeah, so? 

it’s nothing a pair of pliers can’t fix 

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/22/2023 at 1:52 PM, delekkerste said:

A bunch of third-party grading companies for records popped up almost overnight over the past year or so. DJ Steve Aoki is backing one of them although Heritage seems to have struck up some kind of partnership with a fellow Texas-based grading company. Here's a slabbed, sealed record up for auction at Heritage this week. 

For sealed records, they grade the cover and the shrink wrap to come up with the overall grade.

For opened records, they grade the record, cover, inner sleeve and labels to come up with the overall grade. 

I have actually been collecting mostly sealed records for the past 2-3 years. For me, it's primarily a nostalgia thing, though, after the videogame pump and then the VHS market pump, I became metaphysically certain that it was only a matter of time before they got to records, cassettes and CDs and I was proven correct. 

I'm actually sending in my first batch of records to be graded this weekend! I have audiophile friends who are snobby about not being able to play sealed and/or graded records, but, you could make the same argument for slabbed comics, toys, videogames, VHS, etc. where the original product can no longer be used as intended; it's really only trading cards where there is no meaningful loss of functionality after slabbing.  

Would love to see the results of your subs - mostly out of curiosity. The ‘still sealed’ part of collecting was above what I wanted to spend - that can get crazy, and they don’t show up as often as their opened or still-in-shrink counterparts, so gauging bids was always a challenge.

I was never a person adamant on listening to my records. I always listened to them once, just to confirm the grading and that was likely it. But I did meet the people who said collecting records you don’t listen to is sacrilege, too.

Good luck on your submissions!

[Michael Browning]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:59 PM, Terry E. Gibbs said:

Are you talking modern DC or SA, and higher value pieces ??

Almost all DC art, except Batman, Sandman and Alan Moore-written series. It really hurts when a movie is announced.

[redrighthand]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:03 PM, Dr. Balls said:

.

I was never a person adamant on listening to my records. I always listened to them once, just to confirm the grading and that was likely it. But I did meet the people who said collecting records you don’t listen to is sacrilege, too.

 Side note: Came across a figure recently that, of those surveyed 50% of vinyl collectors don't own a record player. Mostly ascribed to purchasing current vinyl as a mean of supporting a current band in the age of streaming or as collectible/art objects.

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/22/2023 at 5:32 PM, redrighthand said:

 Side note: Came across a figure recently that, of those surveyed 50% of vinyl collectors don't own a record player. Mostly ascribed to purchasing current vinyl as a mean of supporting a current band in the age of streaming or as collectible/art objects.

I can believe that - I bought lots of records to support bands I liked and only listened to the digital downloads. When I bought the records - because they were new - I kept those ones sealed.

[tth2]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:22 AM, Bronty said:

On 9/23/2023 at 2:56 AM, KirbyCollector said:

The value comes from being able to enjoy them regardless of their monetary worth. No 5% yield on a CD is going to make you remember that hot day in July 1980, when you sat on the curb in front of the 7-11 working on a large cherry Slurpee while reading the latest Byrne X-Men you just bought from a spinner rack inside and wondering if you'd ever meet a girl as pretty as Jean Grey. THAT is the true worth of collectibles.

I suspect we all agree with you there, but that's the point.   Trying to turn it into math is a flawed prospect.

I think you guys are missing the point, which is that the vast majority of speculators don't have a clue what ROI even is, let alone be able to do a calculation.  In fact, if you said "ROI" to them, they'd assume you meant "Rookie of the Year".

[Readcomix]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:20 PM, JC25427N said:

I think you lose the ability to use that card in official play

Is that because the cards get deployed from a deck that must be shuffled? (I’m completely unaware of how these games work)

[grapeape]

On 9/22/2023 at 11:11 AM, delekkerste said:

If you weren't aware, the latest collectible to get the backward-baseball cap wearing speculator pump is graded record albums. 

The pumpers are actually referring to debut albums as things like "the Black Sabbath rookie".  

I wish I was joking. 

Any Jim Page birther covers out there?

[Rick2you2]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:11 PM, delekkerste said:

If you weren't aware, the latest collectible to get the backward-baseball cap wearing speculator pump is graded record albums. 

The pumpers are actually referring to debut albums as things like "the Black Sabbath rookie".  

I wish I was joking. 

Tomorrow’s Hummels today.

[Will_K]

On 9/22/2023 at 7:32 PM, redrighthand said:

Side note: Came across a figure recently that, of those surveyed 50% of vinyl collectors don't own a record player. Mostly ascribed to purchasing current vinyl as a mean of supporting a current band in the age of streaming or as collectible/art objects.

I'll confess that in the mid 1990's, I went to Bleeker Bob's in NYC for the express purpose of getting the Buckingham Nicks album.  Didn't even know if they had a copy.  There it was on the wall for $100.  Jacket in great shape, plain sleeve (probably a replacement).  I was in and out in less than 5 minutes, a very happy camper.  I played it a few times, copied it to a cassette tape.  I still have the album and maybe even the cassette.  But I can't play either of them. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Will_K