What are the top 5 Pedigree’s in your opinion? 7 7

[action1kid]

.

[Terry JSA]

Church

Promise Collection

Larson

San Francisco

Okajima

[waaaghboss]

Church

Okajima

Promise Collection

Larson

San Francisco

 

[action1kid]

1) Church

2) Allentown

3) Larson

4) San Francisco 

5) Kansas City 

[action1kid]

1) Church

2) Allentown

3) Larson

4) San Francisco 

5) Kansas city

[lou_fine]

Being more of an old school longer term collector from back in the day, I'll stick with the earlier known more established pedigrees, as opposed to some of these wannabe newbies who have yet to stand the hobby's true test of time:    

1)  Edgar Church;

2)  Allentown;

3)  Tom Reilly;

4)  Lamont Larson; and

5)  Denver

Edited October 15, 2023 by lou_fine

[sfcityduck]

What's the criteria?  Its sort of a meaningless question.  Are we talking quality, total value, backstory, import to comics history, historical value, future potential return, breadth of genres, scope of years, association with notable person, depth of copies, etc.?

My list:

1. Gaines File Copies - It covers essentially every comic by a publisher, for many issues includes over 10 copies of each, the average grade is ultra-high, includes many top of census copies, page quality is high, is associated with the Gaines family, is associated both with important comic history and general history (censorship, SOTI, Senate hearings, CCA, etc.), and is just a really remarkable and unique group of comics.  

2. Mile High (you can name it after a bitter obsessed old man, I'll name it after the store that created the pedigree concept) - High quality, large breadth in coverage of genres (but not all) and scope of time period, key "best" books known to exist such as Action 1, important for comic history in how comics were dealt and the explosion in values, the fire pedigree, the OG, is going to be on everyone's top 5;

3. Okajima - Incredible historical association with the internment camp history, trades at higher multiples that any other pedigree especially at lower grades, fascinating back story on both the compilation of the collection and how it was discovered (too bad that there's still a bit of uncertainty on both), includes some really great books but even the lesser books with "camp markings" are desirable.

4. Windy City - 2,000 number 1 issues, biggest collection of its type, key books, what's not to like?

5. Larson - Old, broad, interesting collecting history ties, key books, high quality.

Honorable mentions:

Allentown - crazy high quality on some key books, no backstory just secrecy, too small, great candidates for incredibly notable books but is that really enough to be a pedigree?  The original point of the pedigree concept was to be an indication of quality for books being bought pre-internet remotely. It was an indicia of quality for really large collections as they were spooled out over years. Allentown doesn't fit that. It's a small collection that could be spooled out in a day by any dealer at a convention. 

SF (can't call it Reilly until we confirm he existed) - You can't argue with the books quality, but nothing of the story used to help sell the books has been verified.

Promise - Broad, generally high quality, covers an era not often found in crazy high condition, but it was overhyped, in some instances over graded, and prices are declining on resell in many instances. It's not quite the Pets.com of pedigrees but its a bit close.

Edited October 15, 2023 by sfcityduck

[action1kid]

The criteria is everything you mentioned 1) Church

2) Allentown

3) Larson

4) San Francisco 

5) 

[KCOComics]

Church

Okajima 

Larson

Windy City

San Fran 

If we consider Gaines File copies, I would put that in my top 3.  And it would be really hard for me to pick a favorite between Church, Okajima and Gaines. And sadly, I've never owned any of them. 

 

[Silver]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:54 PM, sfcityduck said:

What's the criteria?  Its sort of a meaningless question.  Are we talking quality, total value, backstory, import to comics history, historical value, future potential return, breadth of genres, scope of years, association with notable person, depth of copies, etc.?

My list:

1. Gaines File Copies - It covers essentially every comic by a publisher, for many issues includes over 10 copies of each, the average grade is ultra-high, includes many top of census copies, page quality is high, is associated with the Gaines family, is associated both with important comic history and general history (censorship, SOTI, Senate hearings, CCA, etc.), and is just a really remarkable and unique group of comics.  

2. Mile High (you can name it after a bitter obsessed old man, I'll name it after the store that created the pedigree concept) - High quality, large breadth in coverage of genres (but not all) and scope of time period, key "best" books known to exist such as Action 1, important for comic history in how comics were dealt and the explosion in values, the fire pedigree, the OG, is going to be on everyone's top 5;

3. Okajima - Incredible historical association with the internment camp history, trades at higher multiples that any other pedigree especially at lower grades, fascinating back story on both the compilation of the collection and how it was discovered (too bad that there's still a bit of uncertainty on both), includes some really great books but even the lesser books with "camp markings" are desirable.

4. Windy City - 2,000 number 1 issues, biggest collection of its type, key books, what's not to like?

5. Larson - Old, broad, interesting collecting history ties, key books, high quality.

Honorable mentions:

Allentown - crazy high quality on some key books, no backstory just secrecy, too small, great candidates for incredibly notable books but is that really enough to be a pedigree?  The original point of the pedigree concept was to be an indication of quality for books being bought pre-internet remotely. It was an indicia of quality for really large collections as they were spooled out over years. Allentown doesn't fit that. It's a small collection that could be spooled out in a day by any dealer at a convention. 

SF (can't call it Reilly until we confirm he existed) - You can't argue with the books quality, but nothing of the story used to help sell the books has been verified.

Promise - Broad, generally high quality, covers an era not often found in crazy high condition, but it was overhyped, in some instances over graded, and prices are declining on resell in many instances. It's not quite the Pets.com of pedigrees but its a bit close.

I like this list!

[Dr. Love]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:54 PM, sfcityduck said:

My list:

1. Gaines File Copies - It covers essentially every comic by a publisher,

2. Mile High (you can name it after a bitter obsessed old man, 

Essentially eh? Lol. Here's a question for someone who ponders these things - why do you think Gaines wouldn't include even one copy of even one romance issue? EVERYTHING else was there, in all their multiple glory.

And love you laying into Edgar! Chuck was amazed and dismayed at the utter disregard (at best) his family had for his lifes passion. So funny if our most revered collector, the OG OCD OO himself, turned out to be a bit of a monster. At the beating heart of it - are comics toxic??

[lou_fine]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:54 PM, sfcityduck said:

What's the criteria?  Its sort of a meaningless question.  Are we talking quality, total value, backstory, import to comics history, historical value, future potential return, breadth of genres, scope of years, association with notable person, depth of copies, etc.?

My list:

1. Gaines File Copies - It covers essentially every comic by a publisher, for many issues includes over 10 copies of each, the average grade is ultra-high, includes many top of census copies, page quality is high, is associated with the Gaines family, is associated both with important comic history and general history (censorship, SOTI, Senate hearings, CCA, etc.), and is just a really remarkable and unique group of comics.  

2. Mile High (you can name it after a bitter obsessed old man, I'll name it after the store that created the pedigree concept) - High quality, large breadth in coverage of genres (but not all) and scope of time period, key "best" books known to exist such as Action 1, important for comic history in how comics were dealt and the explosion in values, the fire pedigree, the OG, is going to be on everyone's top 5;

3. Okajima - Incredible historical association with the internment camp history, trades at higher multiples that any other pedigree especially at lower grades, fascinating back story on both the compilation of the collection and how it was discovered (too bad that there's still a bit of uncertainty on both), includes some really great books but even the lesser books with "camp markings" are desirable.

4. Windy City - 2,000 number 1 issues, biggest collection of its type, key books, what's not to like?

5. Larson - Old, broad, interesting collecting history ties, key books, high quality.

Honorable mentions:

Allentown - crazy high quality on some key books, no backstory just secrecy, too small, great candidates for incredibly notable books but is that really enough to be a pedigree?  The original point of the pedigree concept was to be an indication of quality for books being bought pre-internet remotely. It was an indicia of quality for really large collections as they were spooled out over years. Allentown doesn't fit that. It's a small collection that could be spooled out in a day by any dealer at a convention. 

SF (can't call it Reilly until we confirm he existed) - You can't argue with the books quality, but nothing of the story used to help sell the books has been verified.

Promise - Broad, generally high quality, covers an era not often found in crazy high condition, but it was overhyped, in some instances over graded, and prices are declining on resell in many instances. It's not quite the Pets.com of pedigrees but its a bit close.

Yes, totally agree with you that it really depends on what your criteria is, and as such, I believe it's really a case of to each their own, as everybody here will have their own criteria and hence their own preferences as to which pedigrees they like.   

Interesting to note that you seem to base your criteria more upon what I would say is more of a "macro pedigree" POV in the sense that you feel that the size of the collection (i.e. big is better) is quite important in your selection.  Especially when you refer to the Gaines File Copies having 10 copies of each and the Windy City being the biggest collection of its type with its 2,000 Number 1 issues.  

I guess I took pretty much the opposite approach in my selection and really more from a shall we say "micro collector" POV in the sense that I also felt that the size of the collection (i.e. less is more desireable) was important in my selection.  As a collector from my own personal POV, I would much rather have a copy of an Allentown book in my collection since its total size numbers only 135 extant books in total, as opposed to having a pedigree copy of a book that has thousands of extant copies in total.  Especially when having an Allentown book in your personal collection is special and unique and like having a true rare as hen's teeth pedigree nugget when compared to having a book from a pedigree that numbers into the thousands.  Likewise, I would much rather have a copy of a Denver number 1 book with its total count of only 153 extant books as opposed to the Windy City pedigree with its total of some 2,000 extant number 1 issues.    

 

[bronze johnny]

The question needs to be qualified unless the OP makes this an exclusive Golden Age top 5 thread because a collector of Atomic Age precode horror will include Spokane books (incredible page quality!) on their top 5 list. Not to mention Salida war books and Pacific Coast Silver Age copies. Silver Age romance books are found in the Oakland and Savannah Pedigree Collections. Church books will always be on the list in just about every category but any pedigree question gets complicated given the different genres and eras collectors focus on. “D Copies” are found in so many genres and eras that the range itself makes it a fascinating collection. Palo Alto’s are special books that hold their own during the Atomic Age. File Copies like Gaines are what I call “Time Capsule Collections” given the publisher’s intent behind them and this makes them truly special. It’s a difficult question when we get past the Church books. I can spend an infinite amount of time discussing the pedigrees and how they are distinguished from one another due to their special attributes and the provenance each has. 

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

I don't know about Top 5 peds...it's completely subjective.

Here are my Top 5 Pedigree threads.

1. What are the top 5 Pedigree’s in your opinion?    15 Oct

2. I think CGC should slow down with the Pedigree designations. They are cheapening it.     12 Oct

3. Allentown Bulletman #1 in Pedigree slab.   13 Oct

4. The Edgar Church Mile high copy of Superman # 1   June 24

5. Allentown Bulletman #1 Rebubmitted.    Sept 28

It's interesting that you're worried about the comic book market being flooded with undeserving pedigree designations....

I'm more worried about the GA forum being flooded with spurious 'pedigree' threads   

[action1kid]

About 10 years before you became a member here I flooded the Golden age forum with Action 1 threads. Some early members here will remember. Thus my screen name, action1kid.

[zzutak]

If we consider only a single criterion -- state of paper preservation (aka blinding white pages) -- and limit the discussion to Golden Age and Atomic Age pedigrees, the Central Valley Collection, Salida Collection, and Spokane Collection will be difficult to top.  Approximately 80% of the 400 books in the Central Valley Collection were certified as having white pages (with another 15% deemed to be "only" ow-wh).  And every raw Salida or Spokane copy I've been fortunate enough to thumb through has had a gorgeous, snow-white interior. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by zzutak

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 10/16/2023 at 1:39 PM, action1kid said:

About 10 years before you became a member here I flooded the Golden age forum with Action 1 threads. Some early members here will remember. Thus my screen name, action1kid.

That's hardly a badge of honour.

 

[Mutie Fan]

Church

Allentown

San Francisco

Larson

Promise 

[Johnny545]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:22 AM, zzutak said:

If we consider only a single criterion -- state of paper preservation (aka blinding white pages) -- and limit the discussion to Golden Age and Atomic Age pedigrees, the Central Valley Collection, Salida Collection, and Spokane Collection will be difficult to top.  Approximately 80% of the 400 books in the Central Valley Collection were certified as having white pages (with another 15% deemed to be "only" ow-wh).  And every raw Salida or Spokane copy I've been fortunate enough to thumb through has had a gorgeous, snow-white interior. 

Yup. Spokane books are another level of fresh.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Johnny545

[Moondog]

Church

Promise

Allentown

Windy City

Riley