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CGC no longer uses micro chamber paper...correct?
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Started by lostboys,

78 posts in this topic

newshane

newshane

Posted
Posted
On 10/17/2023 at 1:54 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

https://www.cgccomics.com/about/help-center-faqs/cgc-grading/cgc-labels-and-holders/

 

Is it necessary to get my CGC-certified books reholdered after a certain number of years?

No. The CGC holder is designed for long-term preservation and provides superior protection for your books. A properly handled and stored CGC-certified book can last for generations.

The CGC holder is made from high-quality materials and is entirely archival-safe. The inner well that holds books, for example, is comprised of PETG, a plastic that is well known to be archival-safe and extremely clear. This PETG well is placed inside of a durable outer case that is sonically welded to ensure a secure, tamper-evident seal. For added long-term preservation, CGC inserts *MicroChamber® paper into vintage books prior to encapsulation. This MicroChamber paper helps to neutralize the natural acidity of some books by using a specialized, proprietary "zeolite" that was designed to absorb and hold the molecules known to damage archival collections. That is why MicroChamber paper is used by many of the world's most respected museums and institutions, including the Smithsonian Institution, the Getty Conservation Institute, the Louvre, the British Museum and the Northeast Document Conservation Center. To further protect books from the natural off-gassing that releases acidic molecules over time, CGC has a secure sonic seal that is NOT airtight so that acidic molecules are not trapped inside the holder.

Looks like they are also lying to their clients. 

I'd be careful about that...

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grendel013

grendel013

Posted
Posted
On 10/17/2023 at 4:05 PM, VintageComics said:

Yo' momma. 

On 10/17/2023 at 4:05 PM, buttock said:

Mods notified. 

On 10/17/2023 at 4:07 PM, VintageComics said:

TODs modified. 

On 10/17/2023 at 4:37 PM, buttock said:

Nards motorized.

AND I'LL FORM THE HEAD!  LET'S GO VOLTRON FORCE!!! :banana:

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/17/2023 at 5:34 PM, newshane said:

SUPER LAME! 

No excuse. 

Jack up the fees. Cut WAY back on the materials needed to properly ship our collectibles. Now they aren't even taking the proper steps to conserve them. 

CGC has some explaining to do. Very disappointing news. 

This is the new standard for ALL businesses now, moving forward. And it's never going to go back to the way it was. 

For example, shipping services have reduced efficiency, pushed delivery times LATER but raised prices. lol

Where there used to be some sort of say....unspoken, unwritten etiquette, that has gone completely out the window. Price gouging is now the norm and the world is now one big Ghetto. :eek:

Businesses that are almost monopolies, or businesses that have a product that everyone needs have started arbitrarily raising prices on all goods and services, sometimes multiples times a year. 

I know some cities that have double drink prices this year. Shipping companies. CGC has raised prices twice in the last year IIRC.

It's happening across the board in all industries as markets realize they can just get away with anything they want until they meet real resistance. 

It's just capitalism so as long as market forces dictate demand there will always be a supply.

 

Edited by VintageComics
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1950's war comics

1950's war comics

Posted
Posted
On 10/17/2023 at 3:34 PM, VintageComics said:

This is the new standard for ALL businesses now, moving forward. And it's never going to go back to the way it was. 

For example, shipping services have reduced efficiency, pushed delivery times LATER but raised prices. lol

Where there used to be some sort of say....unspoken, unwritten etiquette, that has gone completely out the window. Price gouging is now the norm and the world is now one big Ghetto. :eek:

Businesses that are almost monopolies, or businesses that have a product that everyone needs have started arbitrarily raising prices on all goods and services, sometimes multiples times a year. 

I know some cities that have double drink prices this year. Shipping companies. CGC has raised prices twice in the last year IIRC.

It's happening across the board in all industries as markets realize they can just get away with anything they want until they meet real resistance. 

It's just capitalism so as long as market forces dictate demand there will always be a supply.

 

sad but true,, you have been saying this for years but you were crucified on these boards by many for doing so... banned from many a topic for speaking the truth

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Math Teacher

Math Teacher

Posted
Posted
On 10/17/2023 at 5:34 PM, VintageComics said:

This is the new standard for ALL businesses now, moving forward. And it's never going to go back to the way it was. 

For example, shipping services have reduced efficiency, pushed delivery times LATER but raised prices. lol

Where there used to be some sort of say....unspoken, unwritten etiquette, that has gone completely out the window. Price gouging is now the norm and the world is now one big Ghetto. :eek:

Businesses that are almost monopolies, or businesses that have a product that everyone needs have started arbitrarily raising prices on all goods and services, sometimes multiples times a year. 

I know some cities that have double drink prices this year. Shipping companies. CGC has raised prices twice in the last year IIRC.

It's happening across the board in all industries as markets realize they can just get away with anything they want until they meet real resistance. 

It's just capitalism so as long as market forces dictate demand there will always be a supply.

 

I have seen it referred to as "greed-flation." 

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newshane

newshane

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/17/2023 at 7:04 PM, CGC Mike said:

We don’t put the sheets in books that have calendarized paper, which is pretty much every book past the ‘90s. Some in the ‘90s as well, but the publishers mostly switched over by 2000.

You guys should probably make that clear to your customers, who are convinced, based on the fine print, that all books are encapsulated with microchamber paper. Clarity and precision is never a bad thing. 

 

EDIT: Well, in fairness, the fine print does say "vintage." But that means different things to different people. 

Edited by newshane
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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
On 10/17/2023 at 9:26 PM, newshane said:

Well, in fairness, the fine print does say "vintage." But that means different things to different people. 

The term "vintage" is has varied meanings based on context.

For example, 2000s books are now technically vintage (it's been nearly 25 years) but it wasn't vintage when CGC was formed in 1999. 

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jimbo_7071

jimbo_7071

Posted
Posted
On 10/17/2023 at 3:52 PM, VintageComics said:

A few years ago CGC started reducing the number of graders that look at a book as well as the terminology on their disclaimer on the back of slabs. 

The reduced it stating that at least 2 graders look at a book (used to be 3).

Additionally, around the same time period (and possibly earlier) they started reducing how much microchamber paper they use. 

I've personally noticed that Moderns often don't get ANY microchamber paper while Vintage books now get one OR two sheets. 

Also, the papers used to be place next to the covers in the early days. 

I'm assuming they're doing this as cost cutting measures to increase productivity and efficiency but it does have an effect on the quality of the product.

Now, if your book gets even gets one, it usually goes somewhere in the middle of the book (not the centerfold, because I assume the microchamber paper may have an easier time slipping out of the CF position than one of the interior pages or the covers).

Personally, I preferred the pages behind the covers to stop the transfer of oils from the interior pages to the covers as often happens on GA/SA and BA books (most prevalent on Marvels) because over time and in warmer climates the oils seep out of the interior page inks as they break down and they start to yellow the covers.

This is really where the microchamber paper should be. 

This is shocking to me. I've paid to have quite a few books slabbed over the past few years, and I thought I was paying for microchamber paper inside of each cover.

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newshane

newshane

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/17/2023 at 8:37 PM, VintageComics said:

The term "vintage" is has varied meanings based on context.

For example, 2000s books are now technically vintage (it's been nearly 25 years) but it wasn't vintage when CGC was formed in 1999. 

Yes. 

It's really a simple fix for them to change the text on the website to explain the exception for calendarized paper. 

Furthermore, they USED to use microchamber in books with calendarized paper. When and why did they stop? 

Edited by newshane
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Get Marwood & I

Get Marwood & I

Posted
Posted
On 10/18/2023 at 1:04 AM, CGC Mike said:

We don’t put the sheets in books that have calendarized paper, which is pretty much every book past the ‘90s. Some in the ‘90s as well, but the publishers mostly switched over by 2000.

Would you be able to seek greater clarity on this for us please Mike - under what specific circumstances can a submitter expect microchamber to be inserted with their books?

This extract from the CGC home page is too loose and appears to be the only reference to the process that I can find:

On 10/17/2023 at 10:39 PM, newshane said:

For added long-term preservation, CGC inserts *MicroChamber® paper into vintage books prior to encapsulation.

How are CGC defining vintage?

Additionally, and subject to your clarifying definition, is the absence of microchamber paper in a 'vintage' slab a valid reason for free correction? This may be tricky to establish, I would imagine, given that CGC would have to take the submitters word for it. Without cracking a slab open, how else can we be assured that the paper will be there if the policy indicates it should be? If the paper is absent in error, the book may degrade quicker than it otherwise would have.

One further point - can you also ask why calendarized paper does not require microchamber paper? Is calendarized paper immune from degradation? It's the first I've heard of it.

So, three specific points which it would be nice to have an official CGC position on:

  1. Under what specific circumstances can a submitter expect microchamber to be inserted with their books (with 'vintage' defined, if that is the deciding factor)?
  2. Is the absence of microchamber paper - where it should be present by design - a valid reason for a free reholder?
  3. Why does CGC believe calendarized paper does not require microchamber paper to be inserted and, as @newshane noted above, when did they stop adding it?
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lostboys

lostboys

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

These are the ASM issues that I cracked out.

Im downsizing my graded book collection and trying to go about 90% raw.

None of these books came out after 1986.

They all should have had micro chamber paper.  (tsk)

 

#193

195

196

197

200

201

202

209

210

229

230

239

250

251

253

254

255

256

257

258

259

260

261

262

276

 

Im guessing my 194, 252 and 238 probably dont have micro chamber paper either, based on these results.

Thats not good. :facepalm:

 

 

 

 

Edited by lostboys
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lostboys

lostboys

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 10/18/2023 at 9:12 AM, joeypost said:

IIRC CGC changed their stance when Voldy stopped including paper. 

I cracked a couple of the other guys slabs maybe a month ago. 

They were UX-Men 139 and 140.

Signature slabs where Claremont signed on the 1st page. 

Those slabs didnt have micro chamber paper but instead they had very thin slices of crystal clear plastic between the cover and 1st page.

It was weird.

 

 

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