CGC no longer uses micro chamber paper...correct? 7 7

[Get Marwood & I]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:38 PM, newshane said:

Isn't this false advertising? The CGC states on their website that all books receive microchamber paper, but they clearly do not. 

That depends on their definition of 'vintage' I suppose. You could just as easily argue that a holder covered in Newton Rings isn't 'crystal clear'.

This is the only reference I can find on their website:

https://www.cgccomics.com/about/help-center-faqs/cgc-grading/cgc-labels-and-holders/

Is it necessary to get my CGC-certified books reholdered after a certain number of years?

No. The CGC holder is designed for long-term preservation and provides superior protection for your books. A properly handled and stored CGC-certified book can last for generations.

The CGC holder is made from high-quality materials and is entirely archival-safe. The inner well that holds books, for example, is comprised of PETG, a plastic that is well known to be archival-safe and extremely clear. This PETG well is placed inside of a durable outer case that is sonically welded to ensure a secure, tamper-evident seal. For added long-term preservation, CGC inserts *MicroChamber® paper into vintage books prior to encapsulation. This MicroChamber paper helps to neutralize the natural acidity of some books by using a specialized, proprietary "zeolite" that was designed to absorb and hold the molecules known to damage archival collections. That is why MicroChamber paper is used by many of the world's most respected museums and institutions, including the Smithsonian Institution, the Getty Conservation Institute, the Louvre, the British Museum and the Northeast Document Conservation Center. To further protect books from the natural off-gassing that releases acidic molecules over time, CGC has a secure sonic seal that is NOT airtight so that acidic molecules are not trapped inside the holder.

 

[lostboys]

I think its pretty obvious that CGC, at some point, started skimping on the paper to save money.

The only question really is...when did this start?

 

 

ASM 348 was far from vintage in 2003, yet, back then...it got 2 pieces of paper.

All the other ASM books I cracked from issue 193 through 260 ARE VINTAGE and got zero sheets of paper.

They had new style labels so they were probably graded during or after the pandemic.

 

Tonight, when its my comic book time, im going to look up some of those CGC numbers and see exactly when they were graded.

The thing is, there had to be a company wide memo at some point directing the encapsulation team to start holding back on the paper.

We should have an answer of some sort, eventually...no?

I dont have many books that are worth big money but Id hate to think that my 9.4 ASM 194 or 9.6 TWD #1 doesnt have micro chamber paper.

 

 

 

[newshane]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:58 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

That depends on their definition of 'vintage' I suppose. You could just as easily argue that a holder covered in Newton Rings isn't 'crystal clear'.

This is the only reference I can find on their website:

https://www.cgccomics.com/about/help-center-faqs/cgc-grading/cgc-labels-and-holders/

Is it necessary to get my CGC-certified books reholdered after a certain number of years?

No. The CGC holder is designed for long-term preservation and provides superior protection for your books. A properly handled and stored CGC-certified book can last for generations.

The CGC holder is made from high-quality materials and is entirely archival-safe. The inner well that holds books, for example, is comprised of PETG, a plastic that is well known to be archival-safe and extremely clear. This PETG well is placed inside of a durable outer case that is sonically welded to ensure a secure, tamper-evident seal. For added long-term preservation, CGC inserts *MicroChamber® paper into vintage books prior to encapsulation. This MicroChamber paper helps to neutralize the natural acidity of some books by using a specialized, proprietary "zeolite" that was designed to absorb and hold the molecules known to damage archival collections. That is why MicroChamber paper is used by many of the world's most respected museums and institutions, including the Smithsonian Institution, the Getty Conservation Institute, the Louvre, the British Museum and the Northeast Document Conservation Center. To further protect books from the natural off-gassing that releases acidic molecules over time, CGC has a secure sonic seal that is NOT airtight so that acidic molecules are not trapped inside the holder.

 

A car is considered vintage at 25 years. 

I know that a mechanical device is different than a book, so it may be comparing apples to oranges, but still...

Almost any book published in the 20th century would be considered "vintage" if you went by that definition. Part of the problem is the "modern age" label attached to books which are up to 30 years old now. 

They need to use more precise language. 

Of course, they probably stick with the ambiguity of it to protect them in case people raise hades about it. 

Not a stand-up move, however. Very frustrating. 

The most infuriating thing is the company's silence on the matter. They've went out of their ways to cut corners. The bean counters are out in full force. First, it started with the lack of proper packing materials. Now it seems like they are saving coin by skipping the microchamber paper. 

They are practically a monopoly, so they can get away with it. 

I miss the old days when they cared about people's collectibles. Now it's all about the bottom line. A few cents here. A few cents there. 

[newshane]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:39 AM, lostboys said:

 

ASM 348 was far from vintage in 2003, yet, back then...it got 2 pieces of paper.

All the other ASM books I cracked from issue 193 through 260 ARE VINTAGE and got zero sheets of paper.

They had new style labels so they were probably graded during or after the pandemic.

 

I dont have many books that are worth big money but Id hate to think that my 9.4 ASM 194 or 9.6 TWD #1 doesnt have micro chamber paper.

 

 

 

'NUFF SAID! 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:00 PM, newshane said:

I miss the old days when they cared about people's collectibles. Now it's all about the bottom line. A few cents here. A few cents there. 

Maybe it isn't, maybe it is. If they choose not to answer a simple procedural question in a public thread, and not respond to chasers, people will naturally speculate and then draw their own conclusions. Like I said earlier, Newshane, read into it what you will. 

[MAR1979]

On 10/18/2023 at 9:51 AM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

Not the "kind" of toilet paper I meant. Eww!

[Eric C M]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:38 AM, newshane said:

Isn't this false advertising? The CGC states on their website that all books receive microchamber paper, but they clearly do not. 

False advertising is an actionable civil claim under Section 43(a) of the Lanham Act. 

Grounds for a lawsuit? 

1. The ads of the opposing party were false or misleading.
2. The ads deceived, or had the capacity to deceive consumers.
3. The deception had a material effect on purchasing decisions.

 

Yes and yes, preserve this information while you can.

[Lazyboy]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:39 AM, lostboys said:

I dont have many books that are worth big money but Id hate to think that my 9.4 ASM 194 or 9.6 TWD #1 doesnt have micro chamber paper.

There is a massive difference between those two books. If the ASM doesn't have it, that would actually be concerning.

[lostboys]

On 11/3/2023 at 12:55 AM, Lazyboy said:

There is a massive difference between those two books. If the ASM doesn't have it, that would actually be concerning.

 

Sure, TWD 1 isnt a problem NOW but I do plan on holding on to it for 20 - 30 more years before passing it down.

All types of paper need proper conservation as they age...no?

 

[Le Chat Noir]

Only had it on a couple moderns out of 100. Initially I mistook it to be a misaligned cover, but was told otherwise.

[Yorick]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:17 AM, lostboys said:

All types of paper need proper conservation as they age...no?

No.  Yes.  Maybe.

Newsprint papers that many comics were printed on should probably have microchamber paper in there.  Newer comics (and perhaps even some older ones) that were printed on semi-gloss or acid-free papers generally don't need it.  The problem is knowing what paper the publisher uses.  They might not respond to such an inquiry.  "Hey Marvel/Disney, do you print your comics on acid-free paper?"   -crickets-

If the climate conditions are PERFECT, then paper may last forever (like a vaccum chamber with controlled temperature).  Not a likely scenario.

[lostboys]

 

Cracked last night:

 

ASM 290 - CGC 9.4  - OFF WHITE PAGES

4050979011

 

This book came out in 1987 and has a white cover. 

Not only are the pages off white but the white cover is already lightly toasted.

Youd think CGC would insert some microchamber paper in a book like this... no?

 

 

Well, there were ZERO sheets of microchamber paper inside this book.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

@lostboys @newshane @Lazyboy@namisgr@VintageComics

FYI

Confirmation that CGC insert MicroChamber paper into books classified as Vintage (pre-1975) but not into moderns (1975 to present) as per their Service & Fees criteria.

[lostboys]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:37 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

@lostboys @newshane @Lazyboy@namisgr@VintageComics

FYI

Confirmation that CGC insert MicroChamber paper into books classified as Vintage (pre-1975) but not into moderns (1975 to present) as per their Service & Fees criteria.

 

Thats cool but ive cracked books that had paper and came out in the 90s...

A few posts above this one I mentioned that the ASM 348 had 2 pieces of paper...book came out in 1991.

My question is: when was the start date for this new policy?

Modern books graded before that policy went into effect would be more desirable to me going forward.

 

 

 

 

[Gaard]

Why was that thread locked?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:59 PM, Gaard said:

Why was that thread locked?

I think they lock all the posts once the questions have been answered in that forum.

[Lazyboy]

On 11/10/2023 at 3:14 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I think they lock all the posts once the questions have been answered in that forum.

Yeah, it's the nature of that forum. It's not meant for ongoing threads.

[namisgr]

On 11/3/2023 at 12:17 PM, lostboys said:

 

Sure, TWD 1 isnt a problem NOW but I do plan on holding on to it for 20 - 30 more years before passing it down.

All types of paper need proper conservation as they age...no?

 

If you plan to own a comic for 20 years or longer and it's currently encapsulated, you have the option to crack the slab open and store the comic using established archival quality materials, namely a mylar bag and an acid-free and buffering backing board.