I am done with CGC, completely fed up! Major slab holder issue. 7 7

[davidking623]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:40 AM, Robot Man said:

The cheaper slabs and lack of micro chamber paper are nothing more than cost cutting measures on CGC’s part. As if they aren’t making an insane amount of money from a captive market already.

I am very happy with my books in double Mylar and a heavy Fullback. Very bright, clear and secure. 

I am with you in this regard , of course if its not CGC 9.8 a person can't sell it for the money its worth . That is where the problem lies its more about money then it is about the books and being happy looking at them in mylar .

[davidking623]

To add even more clarity or less , some collectors are still not happy if the case has a slight scratch , blemish , slight crack on the side of the case while the book is in perfect order and no event has happened to the book . very crazy to me . As they are more worried about the case of course unless something happens to the book . Sometimes I think Twilight Zone is relevant .

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:18 PM, davidking623 said:

To add even more clarity or less , some collectors are still not happy if the case has a slight scratch , blemish , slight crack on the side of the case while the book is in perfect order and no event has happened to the book . very crazy to me . As they are more worried about the case of course unless something happens to the book . Sometimes I think Twilight Zone is relevant .

Yeah, that is nitpicking. Only thing that would bother me is extreme newton rings. slight scratches and scuffs that don't affect the appearance is fine. Hello from Idaho 

[Robot Man]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:11 PM, davidking623 said:

I am with you in this regard , of course if its not CGC 9.8 a person can't sell it for the money its worth . That is where the problem lies its more about money then it is about the books and being happy looking at them in mylar .

It’s ALL about the money anymore…

If you are talking 9.8, It is the bench mark for Moderns. But if you swim in the deeper, harder to find GA, that I do, sometimes just finding a copy is a huge victory. 

[davidking623]

Yeah extreme newton rings is highly not desirable but if the book is graded and in great order and in CGC 9.8 it still has that value .

[davidking623]

On 10/22/2023 at 1:28 PM, Robot Man said:

It’s ALL about the money anymore…

If you are talking 9.8, It is the bench mark for Moderns. But if you swim in the deeper, harder to find GA, that I do, sometimes just finding a copy is a huge victory. 

I have turned my attention more to GA then before , so yeah very cool books out there and definitely fewer .

[VintageComics]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:03 PM, The Lions Den said:

Using a double wedge is probably the best way to secure the book in the well, but it requires a certain amount of care that needs to take place during the encapsulation process. 

Very sorry to see this happen...   

I agree.

And time. And CGC doesn't have time. They've been behind for almost 2 decades now. 

And if people want a better product or CGC taking more time to encapsulate their books, Blackstone is going to want to raise prices to cover the added cost. 

On 10/22/2023 at 9:24 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

On 10/22/2023 at 8:32 AM, The Lions Den said:

They're designed to keep the book from moving around inside the well, but they're simply not built to withstand severe impacts such as those that can happen during the shipping process.

It's odd really, isn't it.

How is it odd?

 

Think this through: A CGC holder CANNOT prevent a book injury upon large impact anymore than a car can prevent a personal injury upon large impact. 

You can't design a holder to OPPOSE THE LAWS OF NATURE.

The cushion to the "large impact" is the responsibility of the person shipping the book. Not the CGC holder. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wanna be engineer here, voracious learner and a techie and technician. 

I will say that CGC shipping books in large boxes stacked vertically WITH NO CUSHION OR IMPACT ABSORPTION UNDER THE BOOKS is definitely a problem. Books shouldn't be shipped stacked VERTICALLY IMO because this sends a DIRECT impact through the vertical axis of the book and applying stress to the staples in the strongest way. 

Additionally, with zero shock absorption material like bubble wrap and packing peanuts, when the box gets dropped the impact gets transferred DIRECTLY TO THE BOOK THROUGH THE BARDBOARD (because this is how physics works).

If you have some sort of impact absorbing material between the box and the books then that material absorbs the impact before it reaches the book. Not too tight though. Just a hair less than snug, so that the impact absorbing material can absorb impact rather than transfer the force. 

If you make the package too tight, the bubble wrap and packing peanuts will act as a solid rather than a liquid and against begin to transfer the impact directly to the book. 

If anyone has received a package from @COMICLINK you know they do it right. 

Big boxes come with lots of packing peanuts around the books PLUS each individual book (or several books) are wrapped in a bubble wrap envelope and then stacked HORIZONTALLY rather than vertically so that the impact DOESN'T shift the books in the holders. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by VintageComics

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:49 PM, VintageComics said:

How is it odd?

The oddness that I was talking about is in the rest of my post that you didn't quote. You've misrepresented me by taking a single line out of context. If I did that to you, you'd point it out. I don't need to think your point through as it's just a reiteration of what was in the rest of my post which you didn't quote.

[VintageComics]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:11 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

On 10/22/2023 at 4:49 PM, VintageComics said:

How is it odd?

The oddness that I was talking about is in the rest of my post that you didn't quote. You've misrepresented me by taking a single line out of context. If I did that to you, you'd point it out. I don't need to think your point through as it's just a reiteration of what was in the rest of my post which you didn't quote.

I reread your post twice now and requoted it below.

On 10/22/2023 at 9:24 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

It's odd really, isn't it. The overwhelming majority of slabbed books will undergo a shipping event at some point, and yet we're always shocked and appalled at the damage that knocks and bangs can cause to a book that sits in a plastic sleeve that has room for movement and which can pinch the outer cover. When you put a book in a boarded mylar, the convex result keeps the book from moving, including the guts. As the mylar curves to the edges, it keeps the whole comic in place. The CGC inner sleeve has square edges - more like a top loader than a mylar sleeve / bag - so the chances of movement increases accordingly. When you see how postal staff treat packages, it's a wonder that any slabbed comic survives the journey from CGC back to its submitter. 

Look how much movement is possible within the inner sleeve that CGC put BigLeague's book in. ASM #300 is a double sized comic, so there was likely some pinching of the covers. The book was likely tight in the sleeve. It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage. The tightness will hold the covers in place, with the guts free to move up, down and to the right within the sleeve space. I don't see 'shaken case syndrome' there. I see badly designed case syndrome. Am I being unreasonable? Look at the room for movement around that comic.

You stated that it's odd that the CGC holder doesn't protect from impact and Mylar does (rough paraphrase).

You even said "it's a wonder that any slabbed comic survives the journey from CGC back" and "ASM #300 is a double sized comic, so there was likely some pinching of the covers. The book was likely tight in the sleeve. It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage" so you're clearly criticizing the CGC holder for being inadequate for absorbing impact. 

I directly rebutted by saying it's not CGC's job to design an holder that protects a book from severe impact. It's the job of the SHIPPER.

I don't see how I mischaracterized it.

I don't think the word "mischaracterized" means what you think it does. 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by VintageComics

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:20 PM, VintageComics said:

I reread your post twice now and requoted it below.

You stated that it's odd that the CGC holder doesn't protect from impact and Mylar does (rough paraphrase).

You even said "it's a wonder that any slabbed comic survives the journey from CGC back" and "ASM #300 is a double sized comic, so there was likely some pinching of the covers. The book was likely tight in the sleeve. It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage" so you're clearly criticizing the CGC holder for being inadequate for absorbing impact. 

I directly rebutted by saying it's not CGC's job to design an holder that protects a book from severe impact. It's the job of the holder. 

I don't see how I mischaracterized it.

I don't think the word "mischaracterized" means what you think it does. 

 

No, you've misunderstood me and you're hung up on the 'odd' comment. I don't appreciate the implication that I'm stupid. I know what mischaracterize means. I can see now why so many people struggle with you Roy. 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 10/21/2023 at 7:23 PM, darkstar said:

Just post a video to Youtube about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VCEoZcq0v4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P8EQ2ATFtE

 

 

Totally forgot to reply to this, I watched both videos. I see this happened to a copy you had as well. 

[VintageComics]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:29 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

No, you've misunderstood me and you're hung up on the 'odd' comment. I don't appreciate the implication that I'm stupid. I know what mischaracterize means. I can see now why so many people struggle with you Roy. 

I'm asking you which part of your post I mischaracterized. It's a genuine question asked in good faith and I quoted your post to make sure I didn't misunderstand. 

If I misunderstood I can only better understand what you meant by you clarifying so it's on you to clarify what you meant. 

So what did I say that's incorrect?

Edited October 22, 2023 by VintageComics

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:33 PM, VintageComics said:

I'm asking you which part of your post I mischaracterized. It's a genuine question asked in good faith and I quoted your post to make sure I didn't misunderstand. 

If I misunderstood I can only better understand what you meant by you clarifying so it's on you to clarify what you meant. 

So what did I say that's incorrect?

Your posts gave the impression that I was saying that a CGC slab should protect a book from a severe impact. I very clearly did not say that. CGC slabs clearly do protect books on their travels. The 200+ slabs I have owned prove that. I was specifically saying that a book with the amount of room for movement that BigLeague's ASM #300 had would likely get damaged by even the smallest movement. That's a big difference. 

I've answered in good faith and did not stoop to calling you stupid while doing so. And I did not attempt to give you a lecture on the laws of physics, adding laughter emojis. That's insulting. You very clearly attempted to belittle me. 

[davidking623]

On 10/22/2023 at 1:49 PM, VintageComics said:

I agree.

And time. And CGC doesn't have time. They've been behind for almost 2 decades now. 

And if people want a better product or CGC taking more time to encapsulate their books, Blackstone is going to want to raise prices to cover the added cost. 

How is it odd?

 

Think this through: A CGC holder CANNOT prevent a book injury upon large impact anymore than a car can prevent a personal injury upon large impact. 

You can't design a holder to OPPOSE THE LAWS OF NATURE.

The cushion to the "large impact" is the responsibility of the person shipping the book. Not the CGC holder. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wanna be engineer here, voracious learner and a techie and technician. 

I will say that CGC shipping books in large boxes stacked vertically WITH NO CUSHION OR IMPACT ABSORPTION UNDER THE BOOKS is definitely a problem. Books shouldn't be shipped stacked VERTICALLY IMO because this sends a DIRECT impact through the vertical axis of the book and applying stress to the staples in the strongest way. 

Additionally, with zero shock absorption material like bubble wrap and packing peanuts, when the box gets dropped the impact gets transferred DIRECTLY TO THE BOOK THROUGH THE BARDBOARD (because this is how physics works).

If you have some sort of impact absorbing material between the box and the books then that material absorbs the impact before it reaches the book. Not too tight though. Just a hair less than snug, so that the impact absorbing material can absorb impact rather than transfer the force. 

If you make the package too tight, the bubble wrap and packing peanuts will act as a solid rather than a liquid and against begin to transfer the impact directly to the book. 

If anyone has received a package from @COMICLINK you know they do it right. 

Big boxes come with lots of packing peanuts around the books PLUS each individual book (or several books) are wrapped in a bubble wrap envelope and then stacked HORIZONTALLY rather than vertically so that the impact DOESN'T shift the books in the holders. 

Not that I don't think Comiclink doesn't do a good job of protecting but dang I have sent up to 10 books from minor cracks books stacked in a box vertical . This being from 3 boxes 1 used with three books to a envelope method with peanuts which those came out good the other 2 boxes were like something you would receive from CGC .

[Gaard]

I've received dozens of boxes from CL. Never had an issue with damage.

[VintageComics]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:53 PM, davidking623 said:

Not that I don't think Comiclink doesn't do a good job of protecting but dang I have sent up to 10 books from minor cracks books stacked in a box vertical . This being from 3 boxes 1 used with three books to a envelope method with peanuts which those came out good the other 2 boxes were like something you would receive from CGC .

That's what I'm saying.

When you stack books vertically AND have no cushion, that's a double whammy. 

Stacking books vertically ALONE will risk the books to damage, either on the bottom of the book from SCS / slab impact or by putting pressure on staples from impact. 

Adding a cushion reduces the possibility of damage but doesn't negate it. 

Shipping books horizontally the way @COMICLINK does is the BEST way to ensure they arrive without slab damage.

It's not even a debate. It's just physics and logic. 

Does anyone disagree with me?

[VintageComics]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:56 PM, Gaard said:

I've received dozens of boxes from CL. Never had an issue with damage.

I've received 100s. Ditto. 

[davidking623]

On 10/22/2023 at 2:56 PM, VintageComics said:

That's what I'm saying.

When you stack books vertically AND have no cushion, that's a double whammy. 

Stacking books vertically ALONE will risk the books to damage, either on the bottom of the book from SCS / slab impact or by putting pressure on staples from impact. 

Adding a cushion reduces the possibility of damage but doesn't negate it. 

Shipping books horizontally the way @COMICLINK does is the BEST way to ensure they arrive without slab damage.

It's not even a debate. It's just physics and logic. 

Does anyone disagree with me?

I definitely don't as to when Comiclink does it right , horizontally right , I have never had a problem .

[paqart]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:39 PM, Beastfeast said:

Same thing happened to one of my books a few months ago.  It was not a high dollar or sentimental book so it didn't personally matter to me but seeing it happen to others is a bummmmmmer.  Sorry, dude! 

Exact same thing happened to me. It is an inexpensive comic, but very rare. Not sure I'll be able to replace it (a 2.29 Marvel price variant.)

[VintageComics]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:50 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Your posts gave the impression that I was saying that a CGC slab should protect a book from a severe impact. I very clearly did not say that. CGC slabs clearly do protect books on their travels. The 200+ slabs I have owned prove that. I was specifically saying that a book with the amount of room for movement that BigLeague's ASM #300 had would likely get damaged by even the smallest movement. That's a big difference. 

I've answered in good faith and did not stoop to calling you stupid while doing so. And I did not attempt to give you a lecture on the laws of physics, adding laughter emojis. That's insulting. You very clearly attempted to belittle me. 

Dude, I'm not sure where the disconnect is but your ENTIRE POST CRITICIZES THE CGC slab. 

Here it is again. 

On 10/22/2023 at 9:24 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

It's odd really, isn't it. The overwhelming majority of slabbed books will undergo a shipping event at some point, and yet we're always shocked and appalled at the damage that knocks and bangs can cause to a book that sits in a plastic sleeve that has room for movement and which can pinch the outer cover. When you put a book in a boarded mylar, the convex result keeps the book from moving, including the guts. As the mylar curves to the edges, it keeps the whole comic in place. The CGC inner sleeve has square edges - more like a top loader than a mylar sleeve / bag - so the chances of movement increases accordingly. When you see how postal staff treat packages, it's a wonder that any slabbed comic survives the journey from CGC back to its submitter. 

Look how much movement is possible within the inner sleeve that CGC put BigLeague's book in. ASM #300 is a double sized comic, so there was likely some pinching of the covers. The book was likely tight in the sleeve. It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage. The tightness will hold the covers in place, with the guts free to move up, down and to the right within the sleeve space. I don't see 'shaken case syndrome' there. I see badly designed case syndrome. Am I being unreasonable? Look at the room for movement around that comic.

I read (present tense) this first sentence like this:

"It's odd really, isn't it. The overwhelming majority of slabbed books will undergo a shipping event at some point, and yet we're always shocked and appalled at the damage that knocks and bangs can cause to a book that sits in a plastic sleeve that has room for movement and which can pinch the outer cover. When you put a book in a boarded mylar, the convex result keeps the book from moving, including the guts."

So, my understanding is you're saying "It's really odd, isn't it. The overwhelming majority of slabbed books will undergo a shipping event at some point, and yet we're always shocked and appalled at the damage - and then you go on a long winded post criticizing CGC slabs and expounding the virtues of a Mylar."

Then you say this:

It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage.

You end the post by saying this:

Am I being unreasonable? Look at the room for movement around that comic.

That conclusion leads me to conclude that YOU ARE CRITICIZING CGC SLABS FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO TAKE AN IMPACT. 

How can I read that paragraph any other way? 

You were wrong and I simply pointed out that you were incorrect. 

You don't like that I pointed out that you were wrong and now you're trying to shift it onto me as though I did something untoward - and refuse to admit you were wrong...but I'm the problem. 

 

THIS in a nutshell is the root problem with society. NOBODY can admit when they're wrong and they just throw stones at the people who point it out. 

 

But the BEST way to figure out between you and I if one of us is mistaken is to ask the group. 

Does anyone disagree with me?

 

As for the rest of it, you need to grow a pair. I'm here to have fun and there was NO malice intended. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by VintageComics