Hero Restoration, Anyone know the latest? 24 24

[Winsomesixsquid]

MCS messaged me this morning saying they linked my name to my book in their files during the investigation. I guess we will see what happens next.

[Nilo2]

On 6/24/2024 at 1:50 PM, Winsomesixsquid said:

When you consign with MCS do you have to send the books to them? Just wondering if they have the books on site or not.

MCS confirmed to me that they have my book on site in Texas as well as several others that they are holding pending the investigation. I believe that all consignments have to be shipped to their offices but not certain. I also received an email this morning from the detective in Oregon confirming that he was in contact with MCS. 

[KCOComics]

I'm glad the detective is being responsive. That gives me hope.  

I worry MCS won't be able to send the books to their rightful owner because of the criminal investigation. 

 

Also - now you have a guy who likely spent thousands to acquire the books and have them graded. He's likely out a huge sum of money!  Mike just keeps hurting people. 

[Nilo2]

At least these books have been found. It is very fortunate that they landed at a reputable dealer like MCS who is cooperating with law enforcement and the rightful owners. We are the fortunate ones who know where our property is. There are so many more who may never get restitution. Sounds like humble cow is a business so hopefully they have insurance or some other type of recourse. As for the investigation, I’m willing to wait a little longer to get my book back if it helps put Mike DeChellis where he belongs.

[revat]

On 6/24/2024 at 2:00 PM, KCOComics said:

I'm glad the detective is being responsive. That gives me hope.  

I worry MCS won't be able to send the books to their rightful owner because of the criminal investigation. 

 

Also - now you have a guy who likely spent thousands to acquire the books and have them graded. He's likely out a huge sum of money!  Mike just keeps hurting people. 

Understandably, people who are missing their books would want them back and theoretically that victims of crimes should get their stuff back assuming its identifiable.  However, for MCS to send the books to anyone who is not the police (including the original owners) would be a huge potential liability.  They 1000% should not give back any book to anyone other than the police (as evidence) without a court order (even then the police probably need a warrant too).  This is at minimum a civil dispute and most likely a criminal issue involving stolen/illegally obtained goods.  MCS is not in the business of solving crimes or determining legal ownership of disputed comics.  I'm sure they have legal counsel that is telling them something similar.  

As for victims who have identifiable books at MCS, they should just be happy FOR NOW that the books have been found.  It could be a long road ahead.  A lot of people in this thread seem to think "Oh, they found the book, it'll be sent back to the right owner at some point."  But there are a lot of steps along the way that could complicate/delay/muddy the issue, especially if MULTIPLE good faith buyers have been involved, which is possible.  That's without even talking about proving a comic from five to ten years ago that might have had some work done is the same as a comic found today half a country away.  And if you can prove that to an investigator, they might still have to prove it to a judge or jury.  And then who knows if other creditors end up fighting you for liquidated assets in the event of bankruptcy/restitution hearing.  And all this stuff might even depend on some different rules/laws from state to state.

And that doesn't even take into account whatever Mike might say or do to fight/delay/obfuscate, or interfere with in the investigation/trials.

I'm not trying to bring everyone down, but to encourage everyone again to keep everything documented with the police and the lawyers, including all communications, pictures, dates and times of phone calls, personal notes, proof of payment (of mike and maybe the original purchase of books if you have them), invoices, maybe a narrative statement and timeline, etc.  Lay it out like a lawyer of 1) what crime was committed and what evidence you have supporting, and 2) what books were lost/stolen/embezzled and why they should be returned to you if they are found.  Point out distinguishing characteristics alongside pictures.

Treat it like you are literally doing a presentation at work that might pay you hundreds or thousands or dollars.  It might all work itself out, but you can definitely take steps to make sure it works out better and faster for you.

[thehumantorch]

On 6/23/2024 at 3:52 PM, Nilo2 said:

If humble cow is indeed an innocent middle man he/she should have known better. The books must have been "acquired" at ridiculously low prices to justify the flip (grading fees, MCS fees) and still come out with a solid margin. If someone had approached me with a batch of silver and gold grails, including multiple copies of AF15's and offered them at a fraction of market value I'd be very suspicious. It's the old adage: "If somethings too good to be true, it usually is"...  I still think if it isn't Mike, it's someone he knows well.

We don’t know what he may have paid for these books.  He may have paid a reasonable amount for the books that gave him room to make money.  We really know nothing about his participation in this other than he’s currently selling books that are stolen.

[thehumantorch]

On 6/23/2024 at 4:47 PM, Winsomesixsquid said:

Very interesting. Yes I agree that "humble cow's" books should be taken off of MCS. Like everyone has been saying, it's crazy that someone would knowingly put stolen books on a site as popular in the community as MCS.

You’re making an assumption here.  Don’t assume they knew the books were stolen

[revat]

For those who think it's a slam dunk to get a book back to its original owner, just because it was found somewhere for sale.

Consider this VERY plausible scenario:

2017 - Customer gives $8,000 AF15 to Hero Restoration for for cleaning and some resto removal (there's some writing, and its got some stains).

2018 - Mike does the resto removal (removing writing, removes the stains), and cleans it up, it looks brighter in many parts of the book.

2018 - After cleaning Mike gets in some kind trouble with law/drugs/debts, gives the book to a shady dude he knows for $4K.  Later when asked, Mike says he can't remember which shady dude.  Shady dude know Mike has a big comic collection, doesn't really ask questions.

2019 - Shady dude goes to a comic convention in another state, sells the comic for $6K in cash to a big dealer, gives a fake name when the dealer asks.  Shady dude would 1000% not remember the name of the dealer if asked.

2020 - Normal good faith customer buys the comic for $9K cash at a convention in another state right before pandemic.  He's excited, achieves a lifelong dream.

2020-2022 - Normal good faith customer works from home during pandemic and is happy staring at his AF15  on his desk everyday for two years.

2023 - Life is back to normal, decides to get comic graded by CGC, pays submission fees of like $400-$600.  Comes back and the comic is now worth $13K graded.

2024 - Good faith buyer wants to sell book at MCS to pay for an engagement ring to propose to a girl he met at comic con in 2020 (this part is overly dramatic but you get the point).

 

Are we sure the original owner gets the book back in this case?  What is the best result of 'justice' in this scenario?  I'm no lawyer but I think there's a pretty good chance the court orders the sale of the book and the proceeds split pro rata between the original owner and the final good faith buyer (buyer gets credit for submission fees too, original owner might get credit for fees paid to HR).  How much is either or both sides willing to pay in legal fees to settle this?  How much is available from HR to reimburse both victims in the event of liquidation/bankruptcy?  Do any of the parties have insurance?  How long will it take them to get involved?  Can anyone even find the Shady Dude?  Will the Comic Dealer cooperate with authorities?  Where should the court cases (if any) even take place?  Which states' laws govern the outcome?

Edited Tuesday at 12:04 AM by revat

[mycomicshop]

We've heard from three different people regarding books reported to be part of this Hero Restoration situation, all of which came to us via the same consignor. The consignor also asked us to take down a few books that are implicated from the same source. All these books we have taken down our listings and will just be holding on to them for now pending further investigations/police/court actions. 

The person who consigned these books to us, selling under the name humble cow, is a long time consignor with us with zero problems or concerns. I believe he's a person of integrity and is another victim here. I do not think he is part of any effort to launder the books or anything like that. Also, it sounds like the purchase prices, and interactions had with the seller, were within the range of normal for books like these rather than a "too good to be true" alarm bells should be going off situation. Any books consigned to us that were originally raw, and were recently submitted to CGC, are ones that we submitted at the consignor's request or on our own recommendation because we thought it made sense to get the book slabbed.

Our consignor purchased these books from the person associated with the geekbay_since_2003 account that's been discussed already in this thread. It appears very likely that the person our consignor purchased from is Mike/Hero Restoration rather than another layer of unwitting buyer.

[Semicentennial]

Damn...this is crazy.

[Point Five]

On 6/24/2024 at 7:05 PM, revat said:

For those who think it's a slam dunk to get a book back to its original owner, just because it was found somewhere for sale.

Consider this VERY plausible scenario:

2017 - Customer gives $8,000 AF15 to Hero Restoration for for cleaning and some resto removal (there's some writing, and its got some stains).

2018 - Mike does the resto removal (removing writing, removes the stains), and cleans it up, it looks brighter in many parts of the book.

2018 - After cleaning Mike gets in some kind trouble with law/drugs/debts, gives the book to a shady dude he knows for $4K.  Later when asked, Mike says he can't remember which shady dude.  Shady dude know Mike has a big comic collection, doesn't really ask questions.

2019 - Shady dude goes to a comic convention in another state, sells the comic for $6K in cash to a big dealer, gives a fake name when the dealer asks.  Shady dude would 1000% not remember the name of the dealer if asked.

2020 - Normal good faith customer buys the comic for $9K cash at a convention in another state right before pandemic.  He's excited, achieves a lifelong dream.

2020-2022 - Normal good faith customer works from home during pandemic and is happy staring at his AF15  on his desk everyday for two years.

2023 - Life is back to normal, decides to get comic graded by CGC, pays submission fees of like $400-$600.  Comes back and the comic is now worth $13K graded.

2024 - Good faith buyer wants to sell book at MCS to pay for an engagement ring to propose to a girl he met at comic con in 2020 (this part is overly dramatic but you get the point).

So you’re saying it was all working smoothly until marriage entered the picture?   
 

[DougC]

On 6/24/2024 at 6:05 PM, revat said:

Are we sure the original owner gets the book back in this case?

"Generally" and in a by the books reading...

Once the original owner of an item files a police report and the item is recovered, the owner is notified after all proceeding have ended. The owner can then claim the item or notify their insurance of the recovery so they can claim the item (or purchase it from the insurance company). Everyone in the middle (receivers) of the trafficked item has to go after whom they purchased it from in civil courts to be made whole. This can start a chain of events that gets dragged out for decades and very rarely is anyone made whole even when they have a judgement against someone.

Often the best case scenario is receiving a judgement, then going back to court a year later for non-payment and asking the court to assign a lean again any property (current/future) in defendants name. Then 30 years from now you receive a check for $5 from their estate after they die.

On 6/24/2024 at 6:05 PM, revat said:

What is the best result of 'justice' in this scenario?

For everyone that was caught in the middle, unknowingly purchasing/selling stolen goods there is no justice. I am sure there are outliers but I have never read about a case of stolen property being seized by the courts and sold to make non-original owners whole, as that is what the civil courts are intended for. Why punish the original owner for "in the courts eyes" a purchaser not doing their due diligence and taking on the culpability of ownership.

[KCOComics]

On 6/24/2024 at 7:24 PM, mycomicshop said:

We've heard from three different people regarding books reported to be part of this Hero Restoration situation, all of which came to us via the same consignor. The consignor also asked us to take down a few books that are implicated from the same source. All these books we have taken down our listings and will just be holding on to them for now pending further investigations/police/court actions. 

The person who consigned these books to us, selling under the name humble cow, is a long time consignor with us with zero problems or concerns. I believe he's a person of integrity and is another victim here. I do not think he is part of any effort to launder the books or anything like that. Also, it sounds like the purchase prices, and interactions had with the seller, were within the range of normal for books like these rather than a "too good to be true" alarm bells should be going off situation. Any books consigned to us that were originally raw, and were recently submitted to CGC, are ones that we submitted at the consignor's request or on our own recommendation because we thought it made sense to get the book slabbed.

Our consignor purchased these books from the person associated with the geekbay_since_2003 account that's been discussed already in this thread. It appears very likely that the person our consignor purchased from is Mike/Hero Restoration rather than another layer of unwitting buyer.

 

Thank you for giving us this level of detail. 

I have always appreciated how you address problems and concerns in a clear and concise manner.  You guys have integrity. It's to bad Mike had none! 

This is such an unfortunate situation! 

[KCOComics]

On 6/24/2024 at 10:38 PM, DougC said:

"Generally" and in a by the books reading...

Once the original owner of an item files a police report and the item is recovered, the owner is notified after all proceeding have ended. The owner can then claim the item or notify their insurance of the recovery so they can claim the item (or purchase it from the insurance company). Everyone in the middle (receivers) of the trafficked item has to go after whom they purchased it from in civil courts to be made whole. This can start a chain of events that gets dragged out for decades and very rarely is anyone made whole even when they have a judgement against someone.

Often the best case scenario is receiving a judgement, then going back to court a year later for non-payment and asking the court to assign a lean again any property (current/future) in defendants name. Then 30 years from now you receive a check for $5 from their estate after they die.

For everyone that was caught in the middle, unknowingly purchasing/selling stolen goods there is no justice. I am sure there are outliers but I have never read about a case of stolen property being seized by the courts and sold to make non-original owners whole, as that is what the civil courts are intended for. Why punish the original owner for "in the courts eyes" a purchaser not doing their due diligence and taking on the culpability of ownership.

Not exactly the same, but when I lived North of Boston, I had my car broken into. Driver side windows smashed and a few small things stolen. The most expensive of which was a GPS. 

The kid who did it got caught in a stolen car later that day. We had to show up in court and show our losses (new window + stolen stuff). The judge ordered him to pay us $600.  When he was caught he had the GPS, though it was now smashed to bits. 

Anyway - I got the chunks of GPS sent to me and never saw a dime of $$.  Blood from a stone. 

Sadly, I think that's what will happen here. The original owner will hopefully get the recovered books. But the thousands of dollars they sent to this bozo and all the people who unknowingly bought hot books.... will be out all that money with no way to recover it. 

Mike stole hundreds of thousands of dollars and that should never be lost. Even if every person gets their books back, he took money for services he had no intention of providing.  

 

[DougC]

On 6/24/2024 at 9:58 PM, KCOComics said:

We had to show up in court and show our losses (new window + stolen stuff). The judge ordered him to pay us $600.  When he was caught he had the GPS, though it was now smashed to bits. 

Anyway - I got the chunks of GPS sent to me and never saw a dime of $$.  Blood from a stone.

This is what happens in what I would assume is the majority of civil judgements.

You can go back to court and ask for a lean on any property after "X" amount of time from non-payment but that still does not guarantee any money and you are out additional money for the additional filings/proceedings. Civil judgements are a problem as it often is not a deterrent since there is no penalty for not following the judgement.

All of this changes though if you have money, a deep enough grudge, and available time to use the courts; most of us do not have all three of these though.

[wiparker824]

On 6/24/2024 at 8:41 PM, DougC said:

All of this changes though if you have money, a deep enough grudge, and available time to use the courts; most of us do not have all three of these though.

Judging by the $ amount these books in “humble cow” consignment list are going for I’d say they likely have the money. And based on how much they stand to lose got to imagine a grudge. Hopefully they have the time to go after him in court. 

[shadroch]

On 6/24/2024 at 3:57 PM, thehumantorch said:

You’re making an assumption here.  Don’t assume they knew the books were stolen

Err on the side of caution. 

On the other hand, " humble cow" appears to be one of MCS's more significant customers and quite possibly a victim himself. Quite a minefield

[wombat]

On 6/24/2024 at 7:05 PM, revat said:

Are we sure the original owner gets the book back in this case?  What is the best result of 'justice' in this scenario?  I'm no lawyer but I think there's a pretty good chance the court orders the sale of the book and the proceeds split pro rata between the original owner and the final good faith buyer

I'm no lawyer either, but this does not sound right at all. Typically the person the items were stolen from gets their items back. Those caught in the middle are generally out of luck. 

[shadroch]

Only one person had their book stolen. The rest all bought stolen property and their only claim is against the person who sold it to them. There is no splitting of the baby.

[Nilo2]

I think the focus should stay on the crime here... As per @mycomicshop, there is only one unfortunate middle man who purchased directly from "geekbay_since_2003". Hopefully that leads authorities directly to Mike DeChellis. Its important for at least two reasons: 1- DeChellis can be forced to tell investigators what he did with the other missing books which could aid in restitution, 2- DeChellis can hopefully face criminal prosecution for what he has done.