Removing Trimming? 1 1

[MatterEaterLad]

I mentioned this in the Hero Restoration thread in Comics General, but the convo is worth having over here. 

Mike at Hero was apparently able to use dry grafting (not just leaf-casting) to "remove" trimming from a book CGC had previously graded as trimmed. 

I spoke with him at length about this and he quoted me a price to remove the trimming from my purple FF1 9.4 -- he said it's not a guarantee, but that he had sent previously trimmed books to CGC and they were unable to detect what he'd done and the labels would come back without the trimmed notation. 

After Mike and his business imploded, I reached out to Kenny Sanderson to see if he could do the same and his answer was, "Yes, this is in my wheelhouse, if it's a good candidate."

My question is, how long has this been happening? Is this like the early days of pressing when people (and auction houses) were having books pressed and not really talking about it?

 

 

[Superman2006]

Bringing over one of my comments from the other thread, the Batman #1 shown in your post above no longer has any notes of trimming in the graders notes, but it does now have a notes of "pieces added cover A-5" and "pieces added interior A-3".

I think that if CGC were consistent in their notes and detection of work done that CGC should note "pieces added" on all books that had treatments (leaf casting, or grafting, whatever that is lol) to add back ALL portions of the book that had previously been trimmed off. In that way, I don't find it surprising that CGC would no longer note that such books are trimmed, but assuming CGC detected the work that was done, I would expect to see all such books with "pieces added" notations instead, similar to what we see in the graders notes for the Batman #1 above. In other words, such books should still get a purple label but with pieces added notes, rather than trimmed notes.  

[MatterEaterLad]

On 11/9/2023 at 2:12 PM, Superman2006 said:

Bringing over one of my comments from the other thread, the Batman #1 shown in your post above no longer has any notes of trimming in the graders notes, but it does now have a notes of "pieces added cover A-5" and "pieces added interior A-3".

I think that if CGC were consistent in their notes and detection of work done that CGC should note "pieces added" on all books that had treatments (leaf casting, or grafting, whatever that is lol) to add back ALL portions of the book that had previously been trimmed off. In that way, I don't find it surprising that CGC would no longer note that such books are trimmed, but assuming CGC detected the work that was done, I would expect to see all such books with "pieces added" notations instead, similar to what we see in the graders notes for the Batman #1 above. In other words, such books should still get a purple label but with pieces added notes, rather than trimmed notes.  

This is something I've wondered about. There seems to be some variance in how trimming has been noted. When a book has leaf-casting on the edge of a cover, if the excess is trimmed to bring the book back to its original size, does that go on the label as trimmed? I've seen it go both ways. I'm fine with either, I just wish it was more consistent. 

[MatterEaterLad]

Here's the response to my initial email to Hero regarding the removal of trimming. 

 

[Superman2006]

I suspect that most books with trimming have at least one edge of their covers trimmed as well.

If that's the case, then the book would need color touch as well, in which case CGC should have a better chance of identifying the fact that work had been done to the book (at least to the cover).

[Artboy99]

is just another form of book manipulation to chase a blue label and "realize the full potential of the book".  

[KCOComics]

 

 I had a very lengthy conversation with a well known professional restorer.  He told me a lot of "professionals" will take books with very very minor trimming and carefully rough up the entire edge of the book (interior pages too). They do it with sandpaper and finger nails so the edge looks consistently aged and the trimming blends in with the rest of the book.  

Said another way,  they manipulate and beat up the book enough that the trimming is undetectable. 

To be clear, I'm against this. I have a Hulk 1 in 4.0 that is trimmed and there would be tremendous upside in having the trimming "camouflaged". I won't do it because it feels ethically irresponsible. 

I guess you could make the argument this isn't any worse than color touch removal. It's a hobby where destroying books is incentivized. 

[bighairjer]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:22 AM, KCOComics said:

 

 I had a very lengthy conversation with a well known professional restorer.  He told me a lot of "professionals" will take books with very very minor trimming and carefully rough up the entire edge of the book (interior pages too). They do it with sandpaper and finger nails so the edge looks consistently aged and the trimming blends in with the rest of the book.  

Said another way,  they manipulate and beat up the book enough that the trimming is undetectable. 

To be clear, I'm against this. I have a Hulk 1 in 4.0 that is trimmed and there would be tremendous upside in having the trimming "camouflaged". I won't do it because it feels ethically irresponsible. 

I guess you could make the argument this isn't any worse than color touch removal. It's a hobby where destroying books is incentivized. 

Yeah, nothing like a heavily scraped book going for the uni label.  🤢

[Yorick]

I've bought many trimmed books.  I'M RICH!!

 

I buy the books for the love of the book, not these labels.  I liked the CGC cases for protecting my books.  Lately I find the cases causing damage to the books.  It's been a slow down-hill.  I'm only going to send in modern comics.

I consider any work on a book restoration.  The color labels have always been a joke to me.

[Ed Hanes]

So what if you cut holes in the cover( edges) to remove any color touchups, is that trimming ? And would you need to rough up that edge to make it not trimming?

Edited November 20, 2023 by Ed Hanes