• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
50 50

Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

Timed

Timed

Posted
Posted

On some of the offending books, the graders' notes match the book scanned in. For example on the 8.5 IH 181 I linked earlier, the notes accurately described the visible defects. This must mean that these particular books weren't reholdered, but were actually "graded", but it's the loosest grading I have ever seen. Wondering how thicker the plot goes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/21/2023 at 1:15 AM, Timed said:

briva3 is the eBay, while @zaneglor_comics is the IG.

We're starting to duplicate stuff that's been discussed many times.

The eBay seller's name is Comic Selects but eBay stores can have different names (briva3 in this case).

I was asking if anyone knew his real name to see if I could recognize them. That's all been answered now. 

What is really troubling is that after listening to the YouTube discussions, many people knew something shady was going on, spoke to 9.9 about it and nobody spoke up. That's really troubling. 

 

Edited by VintageComics
Link to comment
Share on other sites
paqart

paqart

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2023 at 1:18 AM, VintageComics said:

We're starting to duplicate stuff that's been discussed many times.

The eBay seller's name is Comic Selects but eBay stores can have different names (briva3).

I was asking if anyone knew his real name to see if I could recognize them. That's all been answered now. 

 

What I'm suggesting is that "briva3" may be a clue to the seller's actual name. I doubt his parents, John and Jane Selects named their son "Comic". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/21/2023 at 1:21 AM, paqart said:

What I'm suggesting is that "briva3" may be a clue to the seller's actual name. I doubt his parents, John and Jane Selects named their son "Comic". 

His IG is zaneglor. I already quoted you and shared that on the previous page. It's most likely his name is zane. 

I think we're crossing too many wires now. lol

Edited by VintageComics
Link to comment
Share on other sites
drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2023 at 1:07 AM, VintageComics said:

This is actually done on purpose so that the book can be safely cracked out without damaging the book while trying to open the holder. 

Remember, not everyone wants their books to stay in holders. Some collectors crack their books out to put them in their PC, some Sig Series guys crack their books out for signing and some flippers crack their books out to either sell raw or resubmit. While many love to keep their books in CGC holders, not everyone does. 

If the holder was welded solid all the way around, you wouldn't be able to open it up safely without damaging the book. 

I understand that, but clearly there is a need for increased security.  The most logical place without making the outer holder bullet proof is changing the inner well.  I suggested earlier, some sort of crimper so the inner well would also have the certificate number on it seems reasonable.  Or it may be as simple as attaching the inner well to the outer well (no not in a way that would damage slabs like the creep engine ones did), at the back so it would be inconspicuous, and not damage the book. But, it would require fully opening it to separate the two components. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2023 at 1:24 AM, drotto said:

I understand that, but clearly there is a need for increased security.  The most logical place without making the outer holder bullet proof is changing the inner well.  I suggested earlier, some sort of crimper so the inner well would also have the certificate number on it seems reasonable.  Or it may be as simple as attaching the inner well to the outer well (no not in a way that would damage slabs like the creep engine ones did), at the back so it would be inconspicuous, and not damage the book. But, it would require fully opening it to separate the two components. 

I think rather than discuss it on an internet chat forum with strangers, I'm going to wait for the $1BIllion company to come up with an anti theft solution. This is their job. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Changer

Changer

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/20/2023 at 10:27 PM, VintageComics said:

I think rather than discuss it on an internet chat forum with strangers, I'm going to wait for the $1BIllion company to come up with an anti theft solution. This is their job. 

Agreed, they could be using AI to do a quick scan to confirm the books is the same - especially since they now have scans, but then again it won't happen if there isnt some heat.   

 

 

Edited by Changer
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Microchip

Microchip

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2023 at 5:32 PM, paqart said:

I'm waiting for eBay to get in on this. This problem is not limited to CGC. Ebay has a cause of action against CGC for negligence and against ZaneGlor (or whatever) for fraud.

They'd need some kind of supporting evidence to act.   

Sending them a link to this thread isn't going to cut it :insane:

Lets see what CGC come up with... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2023 at 12:57 PM, paqart said:

FYI: We have three parties with an interest in catching this guy: 1) ripped off customers, 2) CGC, 3) eBay. 
eBay was used as the vehicle for this fraud. Money changed hands through them. They probably have to make good the losses to any customers who contact them, and have a duty to contact the ones who don't. This does damage CGC's reputation, but in this situation, I think the most likely scenario goes like this:

The customers, one or more, complain to eBay and demand refunds. EBay grants the refunds, investigates the seller and the fraud. They determine the fraud is done through CGC. EBay can then sue CGC and the fraudster himself. In CGC's case, they don't have to know what was going on to be sued. Their negligence alone is enough. Add to it the possibility that the fraudster has a "friend" at CGC, and eBay has a very good reason to go after CGC.

However, it gets more complicated. The reason is that a lot of CGC product is sold on eBay. EBay doesn't want to compromise CGC's reputation any more than CGC wants to have it compromised. Regardless, they can threaten to do it unless something is done.

This is a much bigger issue than it appears at first. Also, this is officially counterfeiting, even if not money. I got a check from Fox Television when they did the equivalent of counterfeiting my comic when they turned it into a TV series by putting Chris Carter's name as the "creator". That is called "false designation of origin", which is the same thing that happens with knockoff Levi's and Timex watches. I think that is what is happening here, but in the collectibles market.

Also consider that Queens is heavily industrial, and may well have a warehouse somewhere with the right equipment. Then add in the fact that there are a lot of organized crime gangs in that area. Not just "the Mob", but Russian and Chinese gangs as well. This may well be organized crime we're looking at.

CGC is in such hot water right now that I doubt their lawyers would let them say a word until they have a much better handle on it.

It's not going to happen like that at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lightning55

Lightning55

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/21/2023 at 1:31 AM, Changer said:

Agreed, they could be using AI to do a quick scan to confirm the books is the same - especially since they now have scans, but then again it won't happen if there isnt some heat.   

 

 

They've always had scans, but kept for their own internal use. And you could have a high res scan sent to you for a $5 fee paid with submission. Still can, I believe.

Now they make them public on the lookup page, low res, from a certain date, a few months back. They did not go backwards and add scans to previously graded registry records.

Edited by Lightning55
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sigur Ros

Sigur Ros

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2023 at 1:32 AM, paqart said:

I'm waiting for eBay to get in on this. This problem is not limited to CGC. Ebay has a cause of action against CGC for negligence and against ZaneGlor (or whatever) for fraud.

No. These guys are selling legit CGC slabs.  EBay has no need to get in on this.  If CGC or the buyer can prove these slabs were tampered with, that's a different story.  But they can't because CGC approved these books and called them 9.8's, despite the fact that they aren't, and re-slabbed them.

Nothing about these slabs is fraudulent in the eyes of eBay.  The fraud was on the submitter and also CGC.  After they leave CGC they are legit, approved, "guaranteed" slabs.  Period.

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
On 12/21/2023 at 4:49 PM, Sigur Ros said:

No. These guys are selling legit CGC slabs.  EBay has no need to get in on this.  If CGC or the buyer can prove these slabs were tampered with, that's a different story.  But they can't because CGC approved these books and called them 9.8's, despite the fact that they aren't, and re-slabbed them.

Nothing about these slabs is fraudulent in the eyes of eBay.  The fraud was on the submitter and also CGC.  After they leave CGC they are legit, approved, "guaranteed" slabs.  Period.

Yep.

And eBay isn't going to 'sue' CGC either. What for?

What happened between the buyer and seller, who both signed eBay agreements to be able to buy and sell, is a private sale on a hosted website. It'd be no different than if he'd bought a counterfeit slab at NYCC. The buyer and seller had a transaction - used the provided wifi - to use their merchant of choice to transfer money - NYCC isn't RESPONSIBLE for that sale.

The first thing eBay will do, if they decide he's doing something illegal, is FREEZE all of his scheduled payments. It wouldn't surprise me if they charged him a certain amount, without asking, as a HOLD. I'm pretty sure they have it in their agreement to be able to do that. (Someone here is more of an expert on eBay for sure...)

CGC? I'm not even going to speculate, on THEIR forum, what they need to do or what could happen but... I'm pretty sure they're scrambling right now to see what the damage is. This could get ugly...

The seller? I know what I'D be doing right now if I was him. Changing my underwear. It could get REAL ugly for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
50 50
Go to topic listing