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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 7:25 PM, mephistopheles said:

Do you have the sale date?  And the sale date for 1309487005 too? 

Yes, I eventually used the images on worthpoint, and really went with that wrap being a match. It was too distinct, but seeing the larger, cleaner images is just nice to have in case anyone disputes it. I saw it as an exact match the moment I saw one of the images showing that crease in the top right corner, but the wrap was the clincher, because I couldn't see that vertical cbc running parallel to the spine and Wolvie's forearm as cleanly on the WP images. It really is visible on the one you posted now.

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Happy Noodle Boy

Happy Noodle Boy

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Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 6:54 PM, VintageComics said:

Grading is FAR more than just page quality. 

Not everyone is incapable of comprehending real possibilities and separating them from improbable ones. 

Using AI for various aspects of grading? I've already said I wouldn't be surprised if it was happening but there is no way AI is grading books without human involvement any time soon.That's spaceage thinking that is just fairy tale stuff for the foreseeable future. By the time this happens, we'll only be half human. 

And THAT is the point I'm making.

Aren't there computers in hospitals assisting in surgeries right now? A funnybook just isn't that complicated, man.

Maybe CGC (or whoever) would need a human being to turn the individual pages and set them up to be scanned, but that's about it. Sure, they'd have to teach the AI to grade first, but there are zillions of examples of graded comics for an AI to learn on.

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Nick Furious

Nick Furious

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On 12/22/2023 at 6:25 PM, rjpb said:

It's probably been covered already, I don't have time to read the whole thread, but given that people are still mentioning swapping books out of the slab, it would seem a whole lot easier to swap out the labels, which I'm guessing is what happened.

  I think you need to read more of the thread.  

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 7:36 PM, William-James88 said:

I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but these scams tend to feature the use of custom/specialized labels.  We saw something like that previously with purple labels changing to blue by using this recorder tactic.

Dylan if I recall... right? 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 7:31 PM, Happy Noodle Boy said:

Aren't there computers in hospitals assisting in surgeries right now? A funnybook just isn't that complicated, man.

Maybe CGC (or whoever) would need a human being to turn the individual pages and set them up to be scanned, but that's about it. Sure, they'd have to teach the AI to grade first, but there are zillions of examples of graded comics for an AI to learn on.

Again, most people don't seem to grasp ALL the factors involved in grading a book. 

AI isn't a magic wand. lol

If you want AI to do one thing, it's relatively easy. 

If you want it to do 2 things, it becomes far more complex. 

If you want it to do 3 or 10 things, it's complexity multiplies incredibly. 

Now factor in physical movement. Do you know how much it would cost to build ONE ROBOT to pick up a book, hold it and turn pages without damaging a book? Millions?

Now try to build a system that will do ALL of that, be accurate and make it cost effective. 

Like I have been saying, by the time they do that we'll all be half human, have implants making us cyborgs (I'm not talking hearing aids and hip replacements) and who knows if comics will even be a thing. 

It's one thing to dream. It's an entirely different thing to do. 

Again, I CAN see AI doing mundane tasks like, say, zeroing in cover grades into a certain range, or giving page quality opinions, or weighing books for missing components, but to put it all together in one effective package?

 

Jetsons.thumb.jpg.b69969d905c0f78b3b6379de7f66838a.jpg

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 7:36 PM, William-James88 said:

I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but these scams tend to feature the use of custom/specialized labels.  We saw something like that previously with purple labels changing to blue by using this recorder tactic.

What was the timeline on that?

I don't think this is Dylan, but that public discussion could have given people reading the threads ideas to exploit that avenue. 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 7:53 PM, VintageComics said:

What was the timeline on that?

I don't think this is Dylan, but that public discussion could have given people reading the threads ideas to exploit that avenue. 

Pretty sure there were two scams.

One was the restored label to blue label with the character labels.  The other one was the attempted scam on the AF15's.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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@VintageComics

Dylan was banned in March of 2021 from the forum for making shill accounts and the drama surrounding his deal with another board member, harassing their family, on top of the previous incidents of questionable behavior surrounding his submissions of purple labels and AF15's.  AF15 was when he threatened in a Cal like voice to take down CGC. 

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namisgr

namisgr

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Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 7:31 PM, Happy Noodle Boy said:

Aren't there computers in hospitals assisting in surgeries right now? A funnybook just isn't that complicated, man.

Robotics is used in several types of surgeries.  But the robots are controlled and manipulated by the surgeon, and not working autonomously.

The main hurdle with automating comic book grading is the need to generate or capture high resolution images of every page, each viewed both head on and at an angle, in order to reproduce procedures used by a grader.

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pdags

pdags

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Posted

Sorry if this was already posted, but could someone review this book for possible tampering:

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/1295091001/

https://comics.ha.com/itm/bronze-age-1970-1979-/superhero/the-incredible-hulk-181-marvel-1974-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/121753-15392.s

https://mavin.io/item/Incredible-Hulk-%23-181-cgc-8.5-Stan-Lee%2C1-st-Wolverine-Movie-coming-180-x%3Dmen?itemId=255118082750&q=X-men %23181

Same registry number, but IMHO the book sold on HA matches the grader's notes and is not the same book in the second link.  The back of the books are completely different; see staining on top of the second book.

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mjoeyoung

mjoeyoung

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/22/2023 at 5:46 PM, VintageComics said:

Now factor in physical movement. Do you know how much it would cost to build ONE ROBOT to pick up a book, hold it and turn pages without damaging a book? Millions?

There already seem to be plenty of book scanners that automatically flip the pages to digitize them.  I don't think it would take too much to make them "safe" for the majority of books.  You don't need to create a human-like robotic finger to flip the pages, you can use a wheel or suction.

 

Edited by mjoeyoung
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TheLexLuthorCollection

TheLexLuthorCollection

Posted
Posted
On 12/20/2023 at 6:06 PM, drotto said:

Would it be practical to put a "clip" around the edge of each side of the holder, that would break with any tampering, in addition to the sonic weld? I know that would mean a redesign. 

For a $10K and $100K book, CGC charges $400 and $4000 respectively for grading.  Surely, CGC can afford to put the expensive books in more secure slabs.  A $1M book would cost $40K to grade and deserves more than a cheap, plastic slab.  Keep the current slab for books under $5K.

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