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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

mephistopheles

mephistopheles

Posted
Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 11:11 PM, BCR said:

The glaring thing to me, and correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it literal the policy of CGC that if we send in a book for re-hollering, that that book will be subjected to re-grading? 
 

Like, think about how preposterous it would be if you could send in ANY book that’s currently within a holder and you automatically receive the same grade. That’s not just non-sensical, it’s absurd, hence — to my understanding — there is a mandatory re-grading with every re-holder. 
 

On the particulars, this person might’ve done this with the same newly submitted book over and over and over and over again. On our end, we would only see the two books (the submission and the re-holder), but he then still has that original book. He then resubmits it and it all starts all over again. He could’ve done this 50 times with the same book. Always buying a cheap version (say, green label) version, and going through this process. This could be hundreds of thousands of dollars in fraud. 
 

Again, it’s imperative that we find out who has purchased these books so that they can file this fraud with the FBI. Each one of these cases are punishable by up to 20 years in prison. This person needs to be removed from civilized society. And CGC needs to help do it if they want any chance of coming back from this. 

I think they say your book can be subject to a regrade in theory.... in reality it seems to happen rarely if ever.

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JC25427N

JC25427N

Posted
Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 10:11 PM, BCR said:

The glaring thing to me, and correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it literal the policy of CGC that if we send in a book for re-hollering, that that book will be subjected to re-grading? 
 

It's more of a "can", not "will". It's a possibility it will be regraded, not a certainty. 

image.png.4cdded8604435ce4df2181752053f8bf.png

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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 10:36 PM, JC25427N said:

It's more of a "can", not "will". It's a possibility it will be regraded, not a certainty. 

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Which I always read as if the inner well is completely intact and shows now signs of damage or tampering, they do not touch it. This is the exact loophole being exploited. So as long as the person in question maintains the inner well and the damage to the outer well does not look like tampering, CGC slaps a new label on it and into the new case it goes. This means the opening technique does not have to be perfect, it just can't look intentional. Heck, it may be as simple as CGC never thought somebody would be so brazen to do this, so they just never questioned it. Then it doe snot even matter how bad the outer case looks, as long as the inner well is OK. Then the submitter just puts into the request, please put the special label on it, and I think you missed an insert also, you can see it on the side. 

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 11:18 AM, Prince Namor said:

It's not beyond the possibility that there are people who submit a lot of books to CGC who KNOW a grader. And in knowing a grader or two, or someone who works in an important position at CGC... someone they could possibly even influence. Someone like that would HATE the idea of AI doing most of the grading, because they wouldn't be able to get that edge.

The truth of the matter is... the people who handle and make decisions on books that sell for anywhere between $7-8,000 and into the MILLIONS, are sometimes not really paid in a way that could keep them from being influenced by outside money. They become targets for unethical sellers, looking to game the system.

(And it;'s not about - THESE DAYS and things are terrible now - worse than ever nonsense - This hobby has ALWAYS attracted people like this)

IT just makes sense that because of the HIGH DOLLAR value of what CGC does, there are people who are going to find ways to manipulate the system. We've all already seen how it's been done before. 

 

Whenever people are struggling to get by on minimum wage (and remember, these graders don't get tips), there's the potential for crime. Especially where it's so easy to get away with.

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 12:12 PM, mjoeyoung said:

There already seem to be plenty of book scanners that automatically flip the pages to digitize them.  I don't think it would take too much to make them "safe" for the majority of books.  You don't need to create a human-like robotic finger to flip the pages, you can use a wheel or suction.

 

Oh, GOOD LORD!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This allays the fears I expressed earlier.

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Superman2006

Superman2006

Posted
Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 9:19 PM, Steven Valdez said:
On 12/22/2023 at 1:57 PM, Superman2006 said:

Yes, but at least it would add another level of security. Of course, no matter what CGC does scammers can try to find a way to get around it (I don't like to explain possible ways, lest the scammers get any ideas). If they put all that work into an honest days work, they'd still make money and not have to look over their shoulder for when it all falls apart : (

As I mentioned earlier, strongly adhesive hologram stickers on every edge of the case would mitigate opportunities for fraud.

That is one option, but I could think of a way that scammers could try to get around even that, but I won't share publicly since I don't want to give scammers any ideas in the off-chance CGC ever goes that route.

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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On 12/23/2023 at 1:12 PM, Prince Namor said:

How so? It's a SCANNING program. It's not an Android Super Robot from the Future who cuts open the mylar and counts the pages. You have an employee SCAN it. The most BIASED, easy-to-manipulate part of the process, you take OUT of the hands of a human being who could be BOUGHT, and instead have a computer do it.

So you're saying machines ARE superior to humans. Hey, I agree!

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