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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,029 posts in this topic

Point Five

Point Five

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 1:08 AM, drotto said:

I can see tables of grading experts called as witnesses to argue over books in court.  Could be very entertaining.

Does grading over a screen count? hm  I could see comicwiz representing the CGC forums and giving the climactic Jack Nicholson you-need-me-on-that-wall speech at trial. 

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solm4st3r

solm4st3r

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Posted

What if there was nothing exploitable with the slab cases at all? What if someone on the inside was helping the seller get the lower grade books straight through to the reholder slabbing and matching the books to certification numbers of HG books the seller already owns?

The seller may not even crack the HG book out and swap books in slabs. He could just be telling the insider what numbers to use for each book he sends to the insider.

There would need be an investigation of CGC's internal controls and separation of duties. (shrug)

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JC25427N

JC25427N

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Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 2:16 AM, Timed said:

As mentioned before, zaneglor has stated they have 30 plus years in comics. Would not be surprised. 

Well wasn't it mentioned before, that in the slab model used just before the change in 2016, the label was actually attached as part of the inner well. So with our current running theory of how this scam is working (replacing the inner wells of slabs), I don't think it would have been possible to do this exact exploit before the the slab iteration post July 2016. 

Edited by JC25427N
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Timed

Timed

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Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 1:42 AM, PassDaMike said:

I can’t believe I read all of this. 
@comics yes please.

Also hopefully it was not skipped, posted earlier by someone else, that the supposed scammer returned funds today:

 

 

Just to be clear, the scammer did not return funds, at least not yet. He "accepted" the return (maybe forced by eBay?), so now the buyer needs to send the book back to briva3. 

Lawyers, are these fraudulent slabs considered evidence - is it safe to return the books back to briva3? hm

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Microchip

Microchip

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Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 6:42 PM, PassDaMike said:

I can’t believe I read all of this. 
@comics yes please.

Also hopefully it was not skipped, posted earlier by someone else, that the supposed scammer returned funds today:

 

 

The extent of the damage this guy is doing across the hobby is looking pretty substantial.

Eroding confidence in the security processes of CGC is very tangible, with multiple instagram, and YouTube channels covering this topic on an ongoing basis, as more swapped out books are being discovered.

@CGC Mike what is currently happening within CGC in response to this expanding situation?

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agamoto

agamoto

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Posted (edited)

Alright, some Briva3/Zaneglor Silverage worthpoint info mining for y'all. (You're going to want to scroll down to the JIM 83, cuz, hoo boy...) 

A search of the terms "CGC" and the signature phrase "The $$$ and Hard work has already been done for you." results in 649 sales, all on ebay which span from a Batman 608 back in July, 2011 to a New Mutants 98 MJ 9.6 in Oct, 2023. 

Another signature phrase used is the following phrase, "All Serious bids will be considered. If you Have any Questions Please Email me..." That's verbatim. That brings up a total of 813 sales. A look at every single one of the pictures from all of these auctions makes it clear they are certainly from the same seller, but possibly using different seller names. 

Here are some of the standout silver age books. Do with it what you will. I'm not implying that these are suspect books, but uh, yeah, they might be. 

Amazing Spider-Man #1 7.5 Universal 0099339001 Sold for $12759 on Nov 10 2016

image.png.6fec1e633e0bfbcb3095f312b80c70d2.png

Amazing Spider-Man #1 7.0 Universal 0307239001 sold for $12601 Jan 31, 2017

image.png.9b0630269426ac9ae678fd8ccb5b6091.png

Fantastic Four #12 8.0 Universal 1393412007 sold for $9500 on Mar 14, 2023

(See the FF4 #12 in the new case, with same cert below)

image.png.2d261009ddc9546c254896bb941325b6.png

He sold a restored ASM #1 in Oct 6 2016  0297867001

image.png.5a180028c4bfa5f55097343becc36fb8.png

An Avengers #1, can't read the cert. Sold Jun 9, 2012 for $6659

image.png.02d40be5d1631c49eaee373115164955.png

A Daredevil #1 CBCS! May 2016

image.png.cb00ba398eb84f6dbfb5aefa366c0adb.png

Here's an intersting one... Same book, different cert, different slab, signature series!

JIM 83 6.5 Sig Series 1013080002 Sold Dec 30 2012.

image.png.b6011f2b377f87b5cb855aa6c7fa691f.png

Have a look at this one sold Mar 17 2013. 

image.png.81c1bfaa3087bdbf2a4e416dea76d372.png

Small pics, but look at the Stan Lee sig, the dust shadow in the top right. The stain under the J. It's the same book. How is that possible? Only CGC could crack a sig series, only they could have pressed it, and only they could have given it the higher grade. Someone with a little more time may want to scour the internets for pics restored/qualified and signed Jim 83's. Might be legit. Sure would be a lot of risk for a .5 bump. I'm more impressed with the ability to sell it Dec 30th, submit to CGC, have it pressed and regraded and returned to him in time to have it sold 3 months later. Good work CGC!!!

Avengers #4 Old Label, sold for $5998 Dec 30th, 2012

image.png.d031173b16e644c8ae5efa74619ddb51.png

Another Avengers 4, that looks VERY much like the one above, except with a date stamp added. Sold for $5595 Jul 18, 2012

 image.png.991e8bb2c2f7ae3643a9101d930dacef.png

Here's another Fantastic Four #12, Also an 8.0 universal grade cert 1393412007 sold for $4750 May 8, 2023

image.png.76295aa600278874f7642f52d15d85cc.png

image.png.f3755665f2ac8d50ef5f26d063ed5512.png

Same book. 

This guy "sold" the same Avengers #4 multiple times.

Jan 19 2017, $3050

Jan 9 2017, $2600

Dec 30 2016, $2750

image.png.2a154e3efd13213737b94bc7bbb86b04.png

It's clear from seeing the same book "sell" over and over and over again, not just this one, but several issues. eBay was either dinging him for those fees, or he somehow managed to get away with quite the non-paying bidder record.

image.png.5f4ea93e611998d3edc85eb2df595fa8.png

Another book that "sold" three times. 

Ugh... There's too many books and my eyes are tired.

 

Edited by agamoto
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skybolt

skybolt

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 3:24 AM, agamoto said:

The FF12 is a funny one. He sells it to himself in march for $9500, submits it to CGC and gets a new holder and sells it again in May for half the price.

 

Great work! Thanks for posting all the pics and info.

It appears to me that this guy was always shady, but not as sophisticated with his scams as he is today. He was more into shill bidding and things of that nature. For example, he would've definitely tried to exchange that PLOD with blue label if he could.

When did he start selling the Hulk 181's? That would give us an idea when the major operation started.

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skybolt

skybolt

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Posted (edited)

I keep thinking about what 9.9newsstand said about the guy bragging that his CGC guy lets him know how many newsstand or Mark Jewelers (l can't remember) have been graded for certain issues. I wonder if this info is easy to access for all CGC employees (since the designations were put on the labels). Can they just type up Hulk 181 and all the submissions for this issue and notes pop up?

Edited by skybolt
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agamoto

agamoto

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 3:43 AM, skybolt said:

I keep thinking about what 9.9newsstand said about the guy bragging that his CGC guy lets him know how many newsstand or Mark Jewelers (l can't remember) have been graded. I wonder if this info is easy to access for all CGC employees (since the designations were put on the labels). Can they just type up Hulk 181 and all the submissions for this issue and notes pop up?

Oh I'm sure they have a rather detailed database and I suspect they keep private notes on certain books, information not included in the grader's notes. 

Below is the first CGC book I could find posted to ebay and sold by our friend, for what it's worth. I was able to find this ad by looking up phrases that were unique to his later ads. Nov 2006. 

image.png

Edited by agamoto
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Sigur Ros

Sigur Ros

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/22/2023 at 11:10 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

Wait, why is this not being talked about:

 

Wasn't posted in this thread so likely missed.

The guy was getting a refund, whether by the seller or PayPal.  That was assumed.  Good thing seller stepped up though.

The real problem worthy of discussion is CGC's enabling of this fraud.

 

Edited by Sigur Ros
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